Having Some Problems - Don't Know What To Do

[Nattan]

Thanks in advance for any replies.

I just set-up a 140 gallon tank. Have received a lot of help from my local fish store. Have let the tank cycle for 7 weeks and put in 10 trochus snails and 10 hermit crabs along with a Spotted Hawkfish after parameters seemed to be where they should. All seemed well, so after a couple of weeks I added a couple of Bangaii Carindals ( supposedly tank-raised ) and 7 small blue-green Chromis. The Cardinals would never start eating and eventually died after a couple of weeks. 3 of the Chromis have also died mysteriously and I have never been able to find them to take them out...I was told that Chromis very rarely succomb to anything. I definitely feel like not putting in anything for MONTHS.

The Hawkfish is as fat and happy as ever, and it seems like the remaining Chromis are super healthy...same with all of the snails and crabs.

I have done several water changes and it has taken over my life making sure the water quality is stable and right where it should be.

Here is what I have in my tank and what the readings are:

140 gallon acrylic with built-in filter (bio-balls, filter pad, filter rolls ) and powerheads
180 pounds of live rock
100 pounds live sand
Red Sea Prizm Skimmer
200 watt submersible heater
PowerSweep powerhead
6 foot long Actinic Flourescents and MH lighting ( BUT the actinic has never been on because the bulbs have been on backorder )


Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate .05
PH 8.3
Alkalinity 2.7
Specific Gravity 1.023
Temperature 78
Calcium 420


Any idea what I'm doing wrong - I know it would be very hard to say...probably need more information ????

 

[returnofsid]

I don't know if you got accurate info when you were told that Chromis rarely die. I think anytime you get a "school" of fish, it's a good possibility that some will die. I'd also imagine that your hermit crabs have gotten rid of the dead fish for you. Your parameters seem to be good, although I'd bump up your SG to 1.025 if you intend to have corals and for the sake of your inverts. Benghai's can be touchy as well. There's more nocturnal than most fish and tend to eat at night and hide during the day. I've had a couple cardinals that never seemed to eat but they must have because they lived....that is until they both got Ich.
I also don't think you're really doing anything wrong but might be having bad luck with the fish you've purchased. It does happen that way sometimes, unfortunately.
I would suggest removing your bio-balls and all other filter media. All it will do is become a nitrate factory. Your live rock, live sand and protein skimmer will do all the filtration that's needed. You might also consider upgrading your skimmer. I've never had a Red Sea but have never read anything good about them and have read a lot of negative things. Any idea what kind of flow you're getting through your tank? The more flow, the better filtration you'll get from your live rock.

 

[mmkeeper]

Welcome to Rf. Thank you for all of the background info on your system. What type of tank are you planning this to be? Reef? Fowler? You are not using a sump correct?

 

[Nattan]

Thank You

Thank you both for your replies.

"Return of Sid" - I will bump up the SG and check into a larger volume skimmer. As far as water flow goes, I don't know in terms of gallons per hour, but I believe it's a couple of hundred gallons per hour...it's a heavy duty pump...a lot of pressure...plus the other PowerSweep. I'll also talk to my fish stor guy about the bio-balls and other filter pads - I was not aware of that...that sucks.
"MMKeeper" - I have started it to eventually be a reef tank...after my experience so far I think it would be a good idea for me to wait quite a long time to add any type of coral, clams, etc. as I understand parameters are even more important. I don't have a sump - I actually don't even know what that's for. I've tried to read and research as much as I can - but I guess I'm typical as I haven't done enough yet.

Again, I truly thank both of you for your advice and assistance. I plan to be in this for the very long haul...I've always wanted a saltwater tank since I was a kid but never had the chance.

Nate

 

[Curtswearing]

I don't have a sump - I actually don't even know what that's for.

http://www.melevsreef.com/allmysumps.html

 

[JPG@CFI]

I wouldn't put it past your hawk fish to bump off a few of your chromis and bangaii's depending on how big he is. Just a thought.......
Jason

 

[returnofsid]

If at all possible, get some more information about your flow rate. You mention that you might have a couple hundred gph flow. With a 140 gallon tank, you should have an absolute minimum of 1400 GPH of flow. You want to shoot for a minimum of a 10X turn over per hour, with 15-20X being much better. Also, as has been mentioned, do some research into sump/refugiums. Your tank would really benefit from having one. Melevs has a lot of GREAT info on them.

 

[Damsel13]

Thanks for sharing that link. It is the first time I actually could understand what a sump/fuge does.

 

[plack]

A sump will help with water quality and a place to eventually place fitler bags charcoal a heater and a skimmer.Money well spent on the right equipment can equall some time enjoying and less slavery .

If your powersweep has not stopped moving yet it will they always do .
Look into 3 of the maxijet 1200 mods and maybe a timer to alternate them as flow is very important it is often 25 to 50+ times the volume of your tank so say 3,500 gallons per hour bare minimum with corals and look into Plate coral and other colorfull LPS they dont die as easy may cost more but are defenitely colorfull easier to graw and everyone eventually gets or wants some anyway !!!

Sorry for the long post and MERRY CHRISTMAS



I would get a large container ( new Large rubbermaid brute or similar) to mix your new salt water in so it can also a heater and pump and plactic tubing to pump it into your tank also you can use this same pump and tube to pump out water from your tank to somewhere down a drain !

Get a water auto top off system ( I like the tunze osmolator)

 

[Nattan]

Thank You

I want to thank all of you for your advice and the additional information. It's great to know there are people willing to help. I'll keep my chin up and learn as much as I can. By the way, I've checked-out all of your tanks ( if you posted a link or pics )....super cool.

Nate

 

[returnofsid]

As you said, Nate, keep that chin up and you'll be fine in no time. There's TONS of valuable information available on this forum. There's also a whole lot of great people with a love for this great hobby. Without a few key people in my area and without the help of this forum, I'd have given up on the hobby long before I really got started.
We hope to see pics of your tank posted soon!!

 

[Nattan]

Want to let you know I found out the flow rate with the pump I have is 1200 gph, plus the additional powerhead. I plan on adding another Maxijet to get some additional current as suggested.

The owner of the fish store where I bought my tank and most everything else has a refugium set-up on one of his tanks that he is willing to sell to me for $80. It is 24 wide x about 6 inches by about 18 inches with established sand and plants/rock in it and it also includes a MUCH better, harder working skimmer than I have ( I currently have a Prizm, which according to someone on this thread is not that great ). I plan to buy that and the additional Maxijet.

Again, thanks you all for your advice....especially "ReturnofSid", "CurtSwearing", and "Plack". You guys rock.

Nate

 

[Holygral]

You will want to avoid re-using the sand from your LFS. When sand is disturbed and can release all kinds of nastys.

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

Just to echo what others have said... I don't think you're doing anything wrong when it comes to your fish dieing. I had a couple Bangaii's that didn't make it before I have the one I have now. One was DOA mail order, another was fine for a week then one day stopped eating. After a couple days of not eating, it puked up a HUGE ball of gunk... right as I was watching it. Shortly after that it really started acting agitated and the next day it was dead. Sometimes you just have bad luck.

So chromis never die eh?... Hehe - yeah, that's why they cost you like $5.00 each! When you say you couldn't find them, did you check behind your tank? They can be jumpers.

[edit: One thing though - when first stocking a tank, try to add the more docile/peaceful fish first, then work your way towards the more territorial. That gives the meeker fish a chance to establish their territory before the bullies move in. Lowers the stress level in the tank.]

 

[Nattan]

Thanks, Kurt

Thanks, man. Your experience does make me feel a little better.
Good advice all the way around ( and I did look behind the tank ).

I cannot believe how much time I am spending reading and on the internet...I'ts gonna start affecting my work and kids pretty soon...guess it won't be this bad after I learn a bit more - or...? hehe

Thanks again for your encouragement and advice.

Nate

 

[returnofsid]

Ummm after awhile, you'll be asking yourself, who are these lil' people in my house and who is this that keeps calling me asking when I'll be at work? Oh...what work??? It only gets worse!!! lol

Just wait until you develop a desire to take pics of your tank. That starts a whole new hobby....one that's sometimes more expensive than your reef tank...lol.

 

[ronj]

I'll also talk to my fish stor guy about the bio-balls and other filter pads - I was not aware of that...that sucks.

don't be surprised if your fish store guy has never heard that before!! it is definately true.. get rid of the bioballs and other filters.. they just collect nitrates...you may even want to remove a handful at a time, instead of all at once

If your powersweep has not stopped moving yet it will they always do

good grief, that is the truth!!!!!! i went through 3 or 4 of those things a while back before figuring out that they break down after a few weeks!!!!!

 

[Reeferdude]

I'll also talk to my fish stor guy about the bio-balls and other filter pads - I was not aware of that...that sucks
Nate

Not to be a contrarian but I've been running a wet dry with bio balls in my current tank for more than 3 years now and have had ZERO nitrates. I'm actually suprised that after only 7-9 weeks with a couple deaths your Nitrates aren't higher. I don't think your tank has cycled long enough and your sandbed is simply not established yet. With 180lbs of live rock you will (if you add nothing else and maintain regular, not excessive water changes) in about 6 months have a very stable tank environment. Moving slow is very difficult but it's key. Let your tank/rock/sandbed mature slowly and you'll be successful. This is what I would do. I would make NO CHANGES to your system. If you do make changes to your system/filters/whatever without an established environment you will not be unable to determine why or what was causing the elevated nitrates. Hence, you won't learn anything about your set-up. After your system becomes stable, then, if necessary you can alter your set up if you still have a problem. Personally...I think it's as simple as moving too fast...But don't worry, we all do it at first. My current set up ran with rock only and about 5 crabs for over 6 months before I put anything in it. Then...The rock started coming alive and I decided to allow the rock to produce the inhabitants. It's amazing what the rock alone will do for you..If you let it...

 

[Herefishyfishy]

"Not to be a contrarian" OK

 

[Reeferdude]

Not this again... Do you have anything useful to add or are you just trolling for something to criticise...No Question Mark.