HELP clams all dying

[Herefishyfishy]

I agree that more info is needed for any diagnosis/ prognosis in this aquarium, but I am VERY concerned how many tanks in the NW have had recent catastrophic colony collapse. Clam losses in some fairly good tanks by average or brighter reefers.

I REALLY think there is some unknown epidemic and would advise against adding any new clam nor rock/water from any tank with clams, into an aquarium with healthy clams until full identification. Sorry for being so inflammatory, but this is my feeling on the mater. Seen too many clams fold in the last few months with little or no reason. Perbaps Barry or Chris and Barb could prove me wrong, I hope so.

 

[james734]

nitrate last time I checked 80

Ouch... That needs to be lower. Do some water changes to get that down. You want that as close to 0 as possible.

 

[DonW]

I think the epidemic is people thinking there is some sort of epidemic. PM is real easy to see and is faily common. Just like the last thread there was speculation and it spiraled into no diagnosis at all. I think its best to look at these things on a tank by tank basis. Not all this "my clams died" and "i did stuff".

This tank has an obvious nitrate issue with only limited success. I dont consider 6mo to a year long term. This tank has issues to begin with and shouldnt have clams if nitrates are so high on a regular basis. Even the OP states "there is nothing wrong with my water" then further states that nitrates are 80 last time they were checked. The clam in the picture is obviously dead and rotted away which will contribute to even worse water quality.
Clams need good water quality, they are not as hardy as some would like to believe. They will survive in poor water quality for months and all of the sudden look like crap and die.

My snap judgment is that the remaining living clam should be remove and given to someone with a large tank with good water quality.

Don

 

[Herefishyfishy]

My snap judgment is that the remaining living clam should be remove and given to someone with a large tank with good water quality.

Don

No argument on that point.

Many of the clam losses can be pinpointed to bad water, but many are a mystery. My tank has all corals thriving, many are hard to find, slow growers that are taking off! All fish, all inverts, all mollusc's, all corals thriving, all clams died one following the other like dominoes.

My notation on the potential epidemic is, I have never before seen so many colonies collapse all in such a short span. Perhaps just more people getting into clams but I am not much of a believer in coincidences.

 

[DonW]

I'm not comming down on you or any one, just trying to make a point. There are more and more people getting into clams. Clams for some reason do what seems to be well for many months depending on the clam and their size. Alot of folks like to view this as success not knowing that the clam has been doing poorly from day one. LFS are selling clams at what I concider an alarming rate. They keep the clams for such a short period of time that they seem fine. Clams are a whole other hobby seperate from general reefkeeping and if people would take the time to learn and treat it as such I think these widespread deaths will slow way down.
Ive always given chris&barb credit for treating their clams as such and learning everthing they possibly can. I think if more people followed that example this would not be an issue.

Ok thats my lecture I'm done, back to the thread.

Don

 

[Herefishyfishy]

Don, not a lecture, excellent writing and I agree with all points. It's just that I never figured out why my happy clams that I have been growing for well over a year, folded. Two of them were bought as 2 inch grew up to 3 1/2 inch - finally all died immediately following adding a clam from a tank full that had the same thing happen. All were thriving, putting on fresh shell, staying open, shutting whenever a fish swam overhead, excellent vitality. I am fairly clam educated. Bought Fatherie's book, went to his lecture, have read other books and all the recent threads. Mysterious! And mystery is the glue that binds curiosity and fixates attention. Crap, now I AM lecturing:lol::lol:

Guess this should have been on a separate thread so as to not confuse the issues with THIS tank and his clams. As Don suggested, donate or loan your clam to a better tank, at least for now.

 

[jesseb]

DaReefPeep,

What do you feed your fish/tank?

thanks!!

 

[jesseb]

Don,

With all due respect - I've been keeping reef tanks quite successfully for over 30 years. With a degree in biology as well, I'd like to suggest that I'm pretty adept at reef husbandry. When I set up my 400 Gal reef 3 years ago, it was with a great deal of knowledge and success that I made the decision to go that large. As I mentioned in the last thread - I lost 3 clams that I've had for more than 1 1/2 years in a fashion similar to how many others here in the NW have reported over the last month or two, both here and in conversations I've had with folks not on the board.

I've tested my water with my own test kits (salifert), as well as taken a sample to an LFS - which tested and verified the results of my testing that there were no issues with my water quality. While I don't for a moment suggest that in some cases there may be issues with water quality, I for one find it remarkable that such a large number of folks (some of whom I know are at least as skilled in maintaining reef systems as I am) are all having odd water quality issues to cause what appears to be a large number of similar/comparable deaths. The fact that every other animal in my tank seems to be thriving (lots of coral growth/polyp extension, tube worms and other inverts flourishing) doesn't in my mind support a water quality issue.

While I certainly have not tested my water for any/every conceivable thing I could, I have tested for all of the usual and necessary parameters, and haven't identified an issue. I'm not suggesting it's parasites or anything else, but certainly think we should explore/discuss the possibility that something other than water quality could be at play.

I personally believe that with the large number of folks experiencing what seems to be a similar set of problems, without necessarily obvious interconnections, we should be having a more open discussion on what is going on that would explore every possibility - as I've maintained, I haven't been able to identify a water quality issue with my tank, yet lost 3 out of 4 clams within a very short period of time, yet had by all appearances been thriving .

Let's have open exploration of what a large number of folks seem to be experiencing..

I think the epidemic is people thinking there is some sort of epidemic. PM is real easy to see and is faily common. Just like the last thread there was speculation and it spiraled into no diagnosis at all. I think its best to look at these things on a tank by tank basis. Not all this "my clams died" and "i did stuff".

This tank has an obvious nitrate issue with only limited success. I dont consider 6mo to a year long term. This tank has issues to begin with and shouldnt have clams if nitrates are so high on a regular basis. Even the OP states "there is nothing wrong with my water" then further states that nitrates are 80 last time they were checked. The clam in the picture is obviously dead and rotted away which will contribute to even worse water quality.
Clams need good water quality, they are not as hardy as some would like to believe. They will survive in poor water quality for months and all of the sudden look like crap and die.

My snap judgment is that the remaining living clam should be remove and given to someone with a large tank with good water quality.

Don

 

[DonW]

Don,


Let's have open exploration of what a large number of folks seem to be experiencing..

Let do that in a thread wher it is at least somewhat applicable.

I think you miss the point entirely. Not to offend you but this persons clam loss really has nothing to do with strange clam losses or your tank. I dont think I mentioned anyones tank other than the one that belonged to the OP. It doesnt seem strange at all to loose a number of delicate clams when you cant keep water quality under control.

What I dont like to see is alot of speculation and for the most part denile on the part of reefkeepers. I do believe that there are some folks that have lost clams to due to something that they cant explain. But I find it amazing that two pages in nobody not even the owner of the tank addressed the poor water quality. This is not one of those threads where there is no good reason for the clams to have died.

Don

 

[krisfal]

I personally believe that with the large number of folks experiencing what seems to be a similar set of problems, without necessarily obvious interconnections, we should be having a more open discussion on what is going on that would explore every possibility - as I've maintained, I haven't been able to identify a water quality issue with my tank, yet lost 3 out of 4 clams within a very short period of time, yet had by all appearances been thriving .

Let's have open exploration of what a large number of folks seem to be experiencing..

jesseb, I totally agree with you on this, while I only have one clam currently, the similairity of the threads in the last few months has convinced me to not buy more (even though I want more). As I tried to point out earlier the main similarity I have noted is a new clam added within the last 1 - 3 months and it seems the new clam is always the first to die and then the rest follow a day or 2 apart.

I hope Barry can join in on this and tell us if he is seeing this similarity anywhere else.

 

[Herefishyfishy]

I think we are all on the same page. Don is correct that we do NOT want to fail to correct any reefer's obvious or easily diagnosed direct causes for clam failures, but we also have too many recent unexplainable collapses with identical loss patterns. I think where we went off track is by using THIS thread in lieu of the parallel threads to conduct this open discussion.

 

[krisfal]

But I find it amazing that two pages in nobody not even the owner of the tank addressed the poor water quality. This is not one of those threads where there is no good reason for the clams to have died.

Don

Good point! I thought WOW nitrate = 80 but did not delve further. Maybe the owner of the tank can verify when was the last time this was checked (prior to the first death, after etc.) If it was prior definately a concern and likely a factor in the death, but if this was after one or more deaths, would not be totally unexpected as a result of the clam death causing an increase in the nitrates (but still needs to be addressed!).

 

[krisfal]

I think where we went off track is by using THIS thread in lieu of the parallel threads to conduct this open discussion.

Sorry . . I am the one that began the de-rail . . .

 

[jesseb]

My reaction was to this comment - and you are right - based on it - I did mis-interpret your point.

"I think the epidemic is people thinking there is some sort of epidemic."

I don't know what is going on - and would like us as a community to explore it - I want to understand it because I'd like to add more clams into my tank since I enjoy them - but I won't until I'm comfortable that they'll survive and thrive in my tank. To me that means I understand (to the extent that is possible) what happened to me and why a large number of people are experiencing something similar. If that means I need to start testing for other chemistry in my system, I'll make the investment and start doing that. By the same token, if we can understand some other pattern or cause, then that helps us all.

But we can't sort that out without exploring all of the possibilities.

Let do that in a thread wher it is at least somewhat applicable.

I think you miss the point entirely. Not to offend you but this persons clam loss really has nothing to do with strange clam losses or your tank. I dont think I mentioned anyones tank other than the one that belonged to the OP. It doesnt seem strange at all to loose a number of delicate clams when you cant keep water quality under control.

What I dont like to see is alot of speculation and for the most part denile on the part of reefkeepers. I do believe that there are some folks that have lost clams to due to something that they cant explain. But I find it amazing that two pages in nobody not even the owner of the tank addressed the poor water quality. This is not one of those threads where there is no good reason for the clams to have died.

Don

 

[DonW]

Good point! I thought WOW nitrate = 80 but did not delve further. Maybe the owner of the tank can verify when was the last time this was checked (prior to the first death, after etc.) If it was prior definately a concern and likely a factor in the death, but if this was after one or more deaths, would not be totally unexpected as a result of the clam death causing an increase in the nitrates (but still needs to be addressed!).

Its not new, there was just a thread concerning the high nitrates in this tank. As soon as the nitrates were mentioned we cant really move forward with these particular clam deaths. We cant rule out poor water quality, so there is no place else to go concerning the clam deaths.

Don

 

[DonW]

I hope I didnt offend anyone. Lets get this one persons issues ironed out and move on. If need be we can start another thread. If any one has had any mystery deaths lets start a thread and work on them one tank at a time just so there isnt so much confusion.

Thanks
Don

 

[Barry N.]

Where do I start.

I think the epidemic is people thinking there is some sort of epidemic.

If there was an epidemic, believe me I would have been told that.

Like anyother saltwater animal, there is SO many things that can happen and it is SO hard to find the answer.

We all check for the mormal things but there is so many things that we don't check on. One that comes to mind is, a friend of mine kept losing clams. I noticed that he had a lot of xenia in his tank and he read that they liked iodine so he had been using it on a regular basis and after testing the water, the levels of iodine was off the chart.

Another example. check the about of electric current that was going into the water from power heads and other things and the amount was very high. By touch, you could not feel it but with a meter you could detect it.
See where I am going with this. I see ALL the time, people stick there crubby hands into a tank and was just smoking a cigar. Nicotine is a keller in water.

I would suggest that you continue to do water changes and run activated carbon 24/7 and do NOT ADD ANYTHING TO YOUR SYSTEM. No new livestock at all.

 

[Scooterman]

I would suggest that you continue to do water changes and run activated carbon 24/7 and do NOT ADD ANYTHING TO YOUR SYSTEM. No new livestock at all.

I think that is about the best advise I've seen all day!


IMO!

 

[daReefPeep]

I dont think that my nitrates are causing my clams to die my opinion I guess. They are not always as high as 80 most of the time they are at 40 I know still too high right. I have been changing my water every week adding calcium everyday feeding bioplankton phytoplankton probably another reason for my levels to go up and my two main clams have been thriving and then bam all of them at one time and I dont feed my eels as much as I was. So if I have my clam for a year its not success? What is success then me having them for 5 years? If my clam does have a disease or parasite I would hate for another person to put the clam in their tank until my water is better. They can try go ahead if someone wants to take care of my clam until my levels are down please do it for me. I have a coco worm that has an inch of new growth everymonth I have a new duncan head growing I have chalice and acans chili coral zoos that all are doing great. I dont think its right to come on here and lecture people about not being able to take care of clams because its specialized. Dont just assume I dont know anything about this hobby because you have been doing it way longer than me I will take your advice I really appreciate it thats why I

 

[daReefPeep]

come on here