Help with My first sps tank plans

[MarineTeng]

ok, i'm working on getting some MH lights for a new tank i'll be setting up and would like to do sps, as i understand sps it's this
high light, high random flow, low nutrients/high water quality (esp calc and alk)
anyone else want to give me a quick run down on basic sps keeping (rtba possible)

Here's what i've got planned in my mind (in otherwards i might forget somethings)
20 gallon long
2-4" sand bed depending on how much sand i have downstairs
live rock (??lbs) <---- still need to get this mostly
1x175w 10k or 13k bulb (dad ordered off ebay on my direction not sure which ones he won) with ice cap ballast pfo parallel pendant no pc in the pendant
flow
Pengiun 330 just for bio wheels and some flow (300gph i think)
powerheads i've got a few random ones (suggests gph for 20?)
return from fuge (haven't decided how much flow yet)
Fuge
Cheato in a 30 gallon, maybe i'll try and get it drilled
would like some suggestions on running this as a next to it tank rather then below (i don't really have a return pump at this point) or partitioning it or is it worth drilling my 20L or just doing HOB overflow as i haven't had many problems with mine
Salt - oceanic
Water - getting an RO/DI soon
fish- pair of clowns? debating on this probably will so i can have more pairs
Skimmer - umm seaclone 100, i know i'm ashamed, i was thinking of trying it in sump and see if that changes anything or perhaps a 300gph needle wheel
or just an upgrade (suggestions would be nice)
pump <----would need to be pointed in that direction
Calcium reactor (DIY live for physics???) seems like to much for a small tank to buy a retail one... plus i'm always up for DIY
heater - got one enough for 55 gallons
livestock (intial, what i have now that i'm going to transfer)
fire and ice zoos
kenya trees
rics/frilly/bullseye mushrooms
GSP
frogspawn small just splitting into 2 heads
small encrusting sps unknown hitchhiker
do any of these conflict with sps?

alright that's all i can come up with right now thanks for your help

 

[NaH2O]

Good questions. Your fuge would be hard to do next to the tank. Don't get me wrong, you could do it, however, you'd need pumps on both sides, in order for it to work (one to pump water to it, and one to pump water back). If anything would happen to either of the pumps, then you potentially have a disaster on your hands (depending on water levels and things). Are you going to use the bio-wheels? For calcium demands, I would't worry about a calcium reactor just yet. With only a 20 gallon tank, you'll likely be doing more frequent water changes, and if you make sure your make-up water is a balanced calcium level, you probably could get by with water changes and supplements. After you get the tank really stocked with SPS, you'll want to watch your calcium, alkalinity and magnesium levels (harsh with Oceanic salt...alkalinity is usually difficult to maintain, while calcium and magnesium are extremely high...do a search on Oceanic). I'm not a fan of mixing other coral types (softies and LPS - both with good defence mechanisms) with SPS (not much of a defence), especially in a small tank. If you plan on dedicating this tank to SPS, then try to stick with SPS (IMO).

For the skimmer, I know some folks think the seaclone is a fine skimmer. If you find the water quality isn't up to par, then consider another type of skimmer. An AquaC Remora would be fine, especially if you don't have a sump because it hangs on.

One last thing that popped into my head. With the heater, you might consider doing 2 smaller heaters, just in case the heater decides to stick on one day. You may end up cooking your tank.

Hope this helps, at least gets the wheels turning some more!

 

[Elmo18]

May I suggest a 29 gallon Tank?

Same footprint.....slightly larger water volume...slightly minimizing contamination risks

The sandbed will give you very little space in the 20 Long as it is. I have to say that I vote for sandbed, though.

Best,
Ilham

 

[Elmo18]

For powerheads...if you will use them, MJ900s. They are very efficient.

Also, with a 29 gallon (if you decide that way), you will not be wasting as much usable light. It is wider (front to back) than a 20 Long. Whichever way you position the MH bulb (parallel to tank or perpendicular to tank), you will lose some light (i.e. light shining on the floor from sides of tank) with a 20 Long. Not as efficient.

For a heater, i recommend an EboJager 100W.

On the sand, make sure its as fine as you can get.

As for an RBTA, it is always *with caution* with SPS.

(everything just my opinion, others will be different)

Best,
Ilham

 

[MarineTeng]

Isn't a 29 gallon only .5 wider then a 20 long?
also about mixing the tank
are any of the ones i mentioned above specifically aggressive in terms of defense mechanisms?
i say this especially since i'd like to keep the zoos, rics and mushrooms and the GSP i've seen most of these in sps dominated tanks

 

[MarineTeng]

the sand i have is .5-1mm i think, it's the caribsea special grade reef floor stuff

 

[bradreef]

29 is the same thing but taller. Get rid of the penguin 330 because it is only good for fish only. I would try the old maxijets with the hydroflor attachments for wave making. I would set it up just like a nano. for a skimmer something like a Euroreef 5-2 would be great if you put a sump in but a remora will hang on the back nicely. Drip Kalk at night for top off and calcium. or you can do the two part chemicals for calcium.

 

[jetaero]

I would also not do the kenya tree coral, it will take over. Me personally, I have a 20g long nano that has a few sps in it, and is doing great. I also have no refugium, and a euro-reef es5-2 on it.

As well, I wouldn't reccomend doing sand, as it will just be a nuisance in a nano, or for any sps tank. I have starboard on the bottom of this tank. But there are a few methods you can use. I find it easier to keep things clean and stable with BB.

-Josh-

 

[MCary]

Ditto, for a 20 gallon I would ditch the sand. LR and a good skimmer is all the filtration needed, ditch the Penguin. High lights, high flow and low nutrients are not going to sit well with your softies. Ric's and Zoo's like the light but not the flow.

 

[liveforphysics]

I would go with a crushed coral bottom. It doesnt stir around under high flow conditions. It will provide a ton of CaCO3 natural buffering, and as it disolves it provides the perfect rations of Mg, CO3, and Ca.

I would personally think that in a small tank, the buffering and forgiveness wiggle room that a DSB gives would be invaluable.

The pengin sitting on the back would be a fine place to stick carbon, and your corals would enjoy the added flow. The constant surface turbulance would be bennifical to gas exchange as well. In a high flow enviroment with crushed coral bottom, there would be no need for bio-wheels or and media besides occasional carbon in the penguin.

 

[steve-s]

It will provide a ton of CaCO3 natural buffering, and as it disolves it provides the perfect rations of Mg, CO3, and Ca.

I would seriously doubt that. After about 6-8 months (usually less), there would be very little dissolution of substrate. The bacterial coating it would prevent it and marine pH values are too high. The only thing CC provides in any abundance is P.

Cheers
Steve

 

[liveforphysics]

Funny Steve, because I find that the height of the DSB continues to drop even after 6-8 months. Perhaps you know somewhere it goes that I dont understand?

His Chaetomorpha (assumeing its setup correctly) will be able to more than deal with any amount of P that could be released from crushed coral disolveing.

 

[jetaero]

hmm... dsb disappearing... possibly into porous rocks?

-Josh-

 

[liveforphysics]

If I remember correctly, Ilham said his DSB went from being 4-5" down to where I saw it last, which I would estimate around 2"+ or so.

Now, if it didnt turn into calcium, magnesium, and carbonate ions into the water, I would love to know where it went.

I'm also just curious where the folks who commented about BB being more "stable" are getting that train of thought. Seems to be quite the opposite from my observations and logic. If you mean that years down the road it can accumulate material that becomes a problem if its not setup properly, than I agree with you, however as far at stability goes when things are functioning, its going to be very hard to beat IMO.

 

[MarineTeng]

if i were going to go barebottom, i'd rather do a light layer for looks if not more, cause i find sand to be an attractive look for the tank, a complete dsb will probably not happen, won't sand sifters help it from crashing?

 

[MarineTeng]

how are red algae's for exporting? specifically red fuzz kinds, cause i have an abundant growth among my cheato that seems to grow fast, is it good for export, i know it's annoying to keep out of the main tank but wondered about export qualities.

 

[steve-s]

Funny Steve, because I find that the height of the DSB continues to drop even after 6-8 months. Perhaps you know somewhere it goes that I dont understand?

What/who's DSB? What else is in the tank, what maintenance performed, what water flow scheme is employed? What is the composition of the substrate matter? Is the bed "renewed"? Is there a sump system? Is the bed cleaned manually?

As you can see, the question is not answered so easily. Way too veige. For us to simply assume that a reduction in substrate level should be attributed to dissolution would be reaching IMO.

If your maintaining a proper marine pH (8.2+), what's causing the substrate to dissolve? While there are some substrates types (aragonites) that will dissolve slowly just below the 8.2 mark, most will not reach this process unless pH falls into the 7's. Once you factor in the actions of bacteria and their enzyme excretions that coat these substrates, it takes alot for that enzyme to be broken down to where the substrate itself is affected.

In a newer tank set up you might see some dissolution but as a tank matures the process slows to a crawl. You will not visually be able to detect it for long.

Cheers
Steve

 

[MarineTeng]

ok beyond the substrate, i was wondering more about sps since i have no books on the topic, any advice
and i'm curious about seio's i'm looking at maybe getting a 620 and is that a good amount of flow and the right type? is it spread out or pointed? it will be in combination with an overflow return possibly and/or a skimmer on a mj 1200

 

[liveforphysics]

Well, it sounds like you are looking for a step by step formula or something, so I will tell you what works for my 30gal display.

30gal breeder size display with crushed coral DSB and pleanty of LR

DIY standpipe overflow

20gal glass tank as a sump and fuge that the overflow pours into. No baffles, no filters, no BS.

Cheap return pump sitting in the 20gal fuge dumping back into the 30gal via a spray bar near the top to keep surface agitation and disolved O2 at 100%.

4 maxi-jet 900 powerheads in logical places in the display.

Chaetomorpha in the sump/fuge sitting above a crushed coral DSB with some rubble on top to provide homes for macro and microplankton to breed/live.

Cheap home depot lights on the fuge. DIY T5 lighting on the display, half actinic white, half actinic.

DIY calcium reactor which holds Kh and Ca exactly where I want them.

IO salt (I dont normally waterchange, but I dont think it would hurt anything)

Tap water used initially, no sitting time, no de-chlor. Tap water used for top-offs, no sitting or de-chlor

SPS has great color and rapid growth. This setup has brought back 3 different rescue SPS corals from certian death, and they are slowly de-bleaching. All frags I've tried have performed very well and appear healthy and happy. Each night a huge swarm of macroplankton comes out and prowels over everything in sight, I get to witness SPS polyps feed naturally and capture live and natural prey, which is really enjoyable to watch (could just be because I like to watch weird stuff though).

And my favorite part, no nuscance algae.

 

[MarineTeng]

what do you suggest if my tank isn't drilled? for overflow? get the glass tank drilled? (i'll find if it's tempered or not) or just go hob?
and no skimmer for you? (i'll use one but i'm just curious about yours)
what's the name of your return pump?
thanks for the help i'll post more questions in several hours as it's mother's day right now