Here's what's going on with my "tank life"

[Beckmola24]

I thought I'd post an update on what's going on with my "tank life". I couldn't decide what to do where a larger tank was concerned and kept going from "I'll keep my 90g" to "I want a 180". Well, I've decided that I'll patiently wait for the 180. I'm in no rush and I'm actually learning the patience needed for this hobby. Now a lot of you might be wondering why I want the larger tank to start out with so I thought I'd mention that. The fish I would like to keep need a lot of swimming space. Below is the list. I want to try my hand at some "harder to keep" fish and I would like the tank space. I've researched both the Regal Angel and the Moorish Idol and I am willing to do whatever it takes to give them healthy, happy lives. I've been in contact with PaulB on RC and am trying to get comfortable with the Idol's needs and husbandry before I purchase one... If anyone here has experience they could share that'd be great!

1 or 2 (if I can find 2 healthy ones)- Regal Angelfish
1 or 2 (if I can find 2 healthy ones)- Moorish Idols
1 (maybe a pair if the $$$ is available)- Male Crosshatch Triggerfish
1- Copperband Butterfly
1- Foxface Rabbitfish
2- True Percula Clownfish
6- Fairy wrasses (don’t know what kind yet) still reasearching


Currently I have a 20h set up with a 2" sand bed and some live rock. I have a cleaner shirmp, Clarkii clownfish, and a Lubbock's fairy wrasse. The clarkii had some health issues awhile back which I couldn't figure out, and I thougth the little guy wouldn't make it. Well I'm very happy to say that he's grown and is fat and healthy now and his sight has since returned. The dent behind his eyes is amost completely gone now. He's back to his agressive little self

To interested parties, that's the 411 on my tank life.

 

[Elmo18]

Hi Becky! Nice to hear about the clownfish Great job nursing it back to health. Takes patience, and lots of it.

Have you thought about getting the Genicanthus sp. angels? They're planktivores and are reef-safe.

Can't wait to see if you upgrade

- Elmo

 

[Scooterman]

Moorish Idols I seem to remember they require lots of coralline algae as a food source, also even the very best have difficult times keeping them.

Glad to see someone taking their time I'm in the same boat, I hope down the road to build a complete new designed system for my home.

 

[Jiddy]

How much longer Becky! lol, by the way ask Doni aka Woodstock about who she knows who has Moorish Idols, that might help, oh, and the code name is mum ya mean? me either =(

Jiddy

 

[WildReef]

Alrighty you asked the right group!

I have alot of experience with Butterflys from when I was importing, apparently you get them if you want them or not.

I had a herd of like 10 Moorish Idols that I got to eat Omega One Flake Food soaked in SeaChem's Entice (Citris flavored extract). I am saying I had like 600 rare Butterflys and they were all eating it.

Here is a link to the product on SeaChem's Website: http://www.seachem.com/products/product_pages/Entice.html

As for what fairy wrasses you want, I have seen them all and the temperament of them as well when put together.

If I were you I would go for the Gold with a Scott's Fairy Wrasse, it is by far the most coveted of the fairys. Right behind that is the Ruby Scaled Fairy Wrasse, then maybe a Solarensis (Solar) Wrasse.

Scotts:

My Scotts:

My Ruby:

Ruby:

Solar:

Stay away from anything that does not have the name "Fairy" in it. I know all you people out there love those agressive carnivores, but I feel like you get more bang for your buck with Fairys. They are timid and they move slow enough you can see them.

Drawbacks: they are jumpers. Make sure the hood is enclosed.

 

[WildReef]

The ruby really looks like that second pic too, I just have a crapy camera.

 

[Beckmola24]

I wish I knew how long I was going to have to wait for the new tank... Things just keep coming up... I start back up with school 3 days after getting back from Spain and then a week after school starts I'm in a wedding.... Hopefully my husband will "suprise" me for our anniversary

As for the Moorish Idols, from what I've read, they require good water quality, and a lot of free swimming space. From what I've inquired and read, Idols are found in several areas including Tahiti, and from what PaulB has seen and told me is that they are usually found in pairs. It seems that there is a dominant fish and the mate follows at a distance. My idea on this is that they could be similar to seahorses in that they mate for life (JMHO) so when you take one away from it's life mate, the stress is just too great for the other guy. Given my thoughts on this, I'm dead set on purchasing a juvenile that is eating in the LFS. Hopefully it won't be mature and the stress won't be as great. My ideas could be way off, but there's not much info on their mating habits, so who knows. It's good to think and brainstorm... lol
About the fairy wrasses, I do actually want a pair of Scott's fairies. Any advice on which ocean to get them from? They vary quite drastically from area to area. I am toying with a school of Lubbock's... I have one, but have researched and read that they are one of the fairies that live in smaller schools... Thanks for the responses!

 

[Maxx]

Becky,
I would strongly suggest you avoid the Moorish Idol for your tank. Unlike wildreef, my experiances havent been as positive. I worked for 3 years at the largest wholesale/retail saltwater store in Hawaii, Coral Fish Hawaii. I saw maybe 3000-4000 Moorish Idols in that time period and I can recall only 2 that were eating. All of these fish were net caught in Hawaii and had a worst case scenario transit time from the ocean to the store of 4 hours. CFH has over a million gallons of filtered NSW from the same place the Waikiki Aquarium gets their water from...and their success rates were horrible.

If you're buying Paul B's Moorish Idol, thats one thing. Otherwise, I'd take a pass on the Moorish Idol and the Regal Angel.

I suggest you go to RC and read the Moorish Idol thread and the Regal Angel thread. Count up the number of success stories vs the listed casualties...not pretty.

These are two of the hardest fish to keep in captivity. I would suggest the Bannerfish as a look-alike replacement for the Moorish Idol, and would hold off on the Regal for awhile.

You'd be incredibly lucky to find a single healthy eating example of either one of those fish, let alone two of each.
IMO, you've got a better chance of winning the lottery than finding two examples of either fish that are healthy and eating.

Nick

 

[cheeks69]

For some reason one of my LFS' has been getting MI's all of a sudden, been going there for about 4 years never had any now for the last 3 weeks 7 of them none eating

 

[Scooterman]

IAs for the Moorish Idols, from what I've read, they require good water quality, and a lot of free swimming space.

I strongly agree with maxx, he is right, 500g tanks can't keep them alive long, even if Paul has fed them it isn't going to keep them alive long, I saw one eat but that is survival trying to make it, this is one fish that is desperately in danger as it is, on a good note I can't remember the name but they have a twin cousin that will eat & live in a tank (large tanks), I had a hard time telling the difference between the two.

 

[WildReef]

It's been my experience even if you warn them sometimes, they get them anyway... I agree with maxx tho, if everyone has problems importing those fish it seems a shame to support their removal from the wild.

There are some fish that are just "doomed to die" in our aquariums. Butterflys whose diet consists mainly of coral polyps, I mean who is really gonna provide that diet for them???

I would do more research on what they eat in the wild and see if you can provide that, because even one that eats at the store can starve to death.

 

[Jiddy]

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=607477

 

[NaH2O]

I had a herd of like 10 Moorish Idols that I got to eat Omega One Flake Food soaked in SeaChem's Entice (Citris flavored extract). I am saying I had like 600 rare Butterflys and they were all eating it.

What was the survivability rate of the 600 Butterflyfish? Just wondering how they did, since they were eating.

Becky - I wish you luck with the Regal and Moorish. From the thread I read on RC (thanks for the link Jiddy), I noticed a few things. One being there are a handful of folks on this thread sharing success. Another being the large tank size, and the feeding of sponge. The one member uses fresh sponge out of the water. As you have read, these fish require great care and attention, and a mature tank. A statement I have read before by folks keeping this species is - if some of these fish weren't attempted, then nothing can be gained in learning about their care in the captive environment. I see both sides to this. Sure, not much could be learned if no one attempted to keep a specimen in captivity, however, at what price is the "learning"? Some species I still feel should be left for aquariums or out in the ocean. My opinion on MIs, they need a large tank....I'm thinking at least 300-400 gallons, with a ton of live rock that has been matured, and possibly a species specific tank. Of course, the individual specimen's health would have to be taken into account. There is a member on Reef Frontiers that has kept his MI for over a year now, so IMO, his success is just beginning. Terry B had posted that MI success should be measured in years not months, so hopefully this member's success will continue. Here is a link to the thread where albert spoke about his specimen: FOTW ~Zanclus cornutus~

There are some fish that are just "doomed to die" in our aquariums. Butterflys whose diet consists mainly of coral polyps, I mean who is really gonna provide that diet for them???

I totally agree! I can't imagine the cost that would go into feeding a fish like this.

 

[Beckmola24]

I've read both Regal Angel and Moorish Idol threads more than once and I agree with everyone here that these fish shouldn't be imported. If I could picket and make people stop buying these fish I would, and I'd just leave well enough alone, but that isn't possible since people won't stop buying them and thus the whole supply/demand thing which keeps LFS importing these delicate fish. I don't see Regal Angels too often in my LFS and I plan on ordering a Red Sea variety from themarinecenter.com if I decide to keep one, but I have been seeing an ALARMING number of Moorish Idols at my LFS and I can't help but feel so sorry for them (the fish not the LFS ). From reading the thread on on RC, MANY people are NOT like me in that they just buy the fish because they are "pretty" and they have no idea how to care for these beautiful fish and unfortunately they die within a few weeks or months.
I really want to make headway with the reasearch of Moorish Idols. I have already planned to document every aspect of their behavior and have even talked with my husband about setting up a webcam to watch it even while I'm away. I know for sure I can't stop the importing of MI's but I'd at least like to know I saved one from certain death at my LFS. I've seen 5 or 6 Idols there in the past month and I don't think that is right. I was actually going to wait on the MI until I started seeing so many suffer in this shop... and BTW this shop is supposed to be one of the "good shops"... They import sharks and rays that need 500g tanks and they sell like hotcakes since the sharks are only 3"-4" and people think they are "cute mini sharks" Man do I miss the LFS from Seattle... Just my thoughts and venting a little

 

[WildReef]

I really don't know how those fish faired as I ended up giving them all away to stores I supplied. I didn't even take money for them and told the stores they would die, but they took them. One store claims a guy out in Richardson bought the MI's and 6 of the 10 are still alive in his 500 gallon tank.

 

[NaH2O]

I've read both Regal Angel and Moorish Idol threads more than once and I agree with everyone here that these fish shouldn't be imported. If I could picket and make people stop buying these fish I would, and I'd just leave well enough alone, but that isn't possible since people won't stop buying them and thus the whole supply/demand thing which keeps LFS importing these delicate fish. I don't see Regal Angels too often in my LFS and I plan on ordering a Red Sea variety from themarinecenter.com if I decide to keep one, but I have been seeing an ALARMING number of Moorish Idols at my LFS and I can't help but feel so sorry for them (the fish not the LFS ). From reading the thread on on RC, MANY people are NOT like me in that they just buy the fish because they are "pretty" and they have no idea how to care for these beautiful fish and unfortunately they die within a few weeks or months.
I really want to make headway with the reasearch of Moorish Idols. I have already planned to document every aspect of their behavior and have even talked with my husband about setting up a webcam to watch it even while I'm away. I know for sure I can't stop the importing of MI's but I'd at least like to know I saved one from certain death at my LFS. I've seen 5 or 6 Idols there in the past month and I don't think that is right. I was actually going to wait on the MI until I started seeing so many suffer in this shop... and BTW this shop is supposed to be one of the "good shops"... They import sharks and rays that need 500g tanks and they sell like hotcakes since the sharks are only 3"-4" and people think they are "cute mini sharks" Man do I miss the LFS from Seattle... Just my thoughts and venting a little

Becky - I'm sorry, but I feel that you contradicted yourself in this post. On one hand you are saying that you would picket to make people stop buying them, and that supply/demand is drawing the stores to keep bringing in the fish.....yet you are going to be one of the people that is going to purchase one creating more of a demand for them. If you really want to research them and try to "save a species" doomed for captivity, then why not set up a species specific tank, instead of what you have planned? That way, you are eliminating some variables, as other fish can introduce diseases (other than what may already be present), stress the fish with territory pressure, etc. I am by no means encouraging this, but if your purpose of keeping one is for research, which you posted above, then this to me would be a better research plan. I will be most interested in your experience, and would love to hear your plan prior to purchase.....how long will the tank be established, which inhabitants present, food, etc. I know you do your research, as you had posted some difficult fish you wanted (a couple of types of Anthias) before on the other livestock thread (which might be better choices in comparison to the MI, IMO). I hope I'm not frustrating you, as it isn't my intent. I just want to express my viewpoint on this delicate species.

One store claims a guy out in Richardson bought the MI's and 6 of the 10 are still alive in his 500 gallon tank.

Wow! I wonder if this guy ever took pics. If I had 6 MIs eating and alive in a tank, then I would be showing them off.....especially if it has been more than a year or two.

 

[aquariumdebacle]

I think you should try a group of three. That might split the agression. When i lived in Hawaii they seemed to travel in groups of three, six, nine... rarely more than that but mostly in groups of three. One fish will dominate but usually they just go for the long streaming dorsal fin which seems to be in tatters most of the time in captivity at least in the LFS. I had good success with feeding manila clams. I would just break it open and let it drop to the bottom. try not to get to hung up on the morality issue. You are at the very least providing a fisherman with an income and in that is reason alone enough to purchase what you think you can support. Think of the situation as though you are gaining mental nourshiment from attempting to provide a better life for these animals than the one they are destin for if you don't purchase them. I have eaten many wild salmon and did not feel an ounce of guilt for murdering them and stuffing their guts with bacon, onions, and a little lemon before throwing them on the campfire. you are indirectly feeding off your captives and nurturing those that brought them to you. No justification is needed.

 

[WildReef]

Here is a bannerfish (even tho the photographer thinks it is a moorish)

And here is a Moorish Idol:

You really can tell them apart when you see them in person. The Moorish has this black & yellow snick on his snout, and has a mostly black face and white snout with the snick on it. The banner when compared to the Moorish side by side really only resemble eachother in that, yeah they both have a long top fin, and some vertical black and white lines.

I believe the Moorish has it's own category too, it is not a butterfly, and it is not a tang, it is considered something in between the two.

 

[Scooterman]

I disagree Dan, on several points, killing to survive as food is one thing, also this salmon is being replenished by several organizations but sport killing isn't a sport at all, massive collection of a species & reducing it to total extinction is hypocritical to say the least. I do indeed hunt, eat animals I kill as a food product same as fish but I wouldn't hunt animals to total destruction just for a profit there are other ways to earn a living.

 

[WildReef]

It's weird to me, and may be totally trivial to you, that the Moorish Idol was present in the "Finding Nemo" movie. It was in the fishtank in the Dentist's Office.

Was kinda' cool they all escaped in little bags back into the ocean tho.