High Phosphates why?

[Herefishyfishy]

Have only skimmed this thread, but what jumps out is high algae growth in same tank with high phosphates equals pollution. It could be from over-feeding, but most likely due to a lack of nutrient export. The red sea skimmer is not worth the space it takes up. I typically do not add fish to solve water quality issues. Need better tank maintanence starting with a real skimmer. I would continue with frequent water changes to gradually remove the pollutants. Watch the feeding and pull out as much algae as possible. Refugiums are another way to export nitrates and phosphates. Additional water flow can also help against stagnation induced algae growth. As soon as water quality can allow, lose the trickle filter. Bioballs are just nitrate factories, breaking down larger organics into soluble ones. There are few shortcuts to clean water and a clean tank . . .

 

[Gazbo]

The big problem with yellow tangs is how easily they starve when all the hair algae is gone.

Yeah that's not an issue, well IME every yellow tang I have owned has been a pig and sometimes a bully like now my salfin is looking a little thin because the yellow tang keeps chasing him away from the food so now its increase feedings for awhile.

Tomorrow is the fun day of pulling rock and getting as much hair as possible what did I get myself into. Hope we can get these tanks turned around quickly have alot of things I need moved from my tank. Especially after the swap planning on bringing alot of home hopefully

 

[ReefGeeker]

Yeah that's not an issue, well IME every yellow tang I have owned has been a pig and sometimes a bully like now my salfin is looking a little thin because the yellow tang keeps chasing him away from the food so now its increase feedings for awhile.

Tomorrow is the fun day of pulling rock and getting as much hair as possible what did I get myself into. Hope we can get these tanks turned around quickly have alot of things I need moved from my tank. Especially after the swap planning on bringing alot of home hopefully

Agreed, mine is a pig too. However once the algae is gone it's wise to suppliment its diet with nori. Also I never meant to say that the tang would solve water quality issues, just that it would clean up the algae which is true.

 

[Herefishyfishy]

Agreed, mine is a pig too. However once the algae is gone it's wise to suppliment its diet with nori. Also I never meant to say that the tang would solve water quality issues, just that it would clean up the algae which is true.

Its all good. I love tangs, have been accused of being part of the tang police. Not all tangs including yellows will eat fuzzy or clumpy algae unless they are very hungry. Almost none will eat hair algae or briopsis. They all should be suplimented with quality vegetarian diet including nori daily. I good mix of foods keeps them healthy and generally peaceful.

 

[ReefGeeker]

Agreed with the diet, I've only had one yellow so my expeiriance is based on one individual but when i got it it ate a small patch of GHA that I'd had in my old cube very quickly, granted it looked starved (sunken belly) when I rescued it from a 10g that had 7 fish in it at the LFS somebody had brought in and they were giving them away so it was free. Now that I think about it I got my pajama cardinal from that same tank and gave my buddy a clown fish that came from there too.

 

[Gazbo]

Have only skimmed this thread, but what jumps out is high algae growth in same tank with high phosphates equals pollution. It could be from over-feeding, but most likely due to a lack of nutrient export. The red sea skimmer is not worth the space it takes up. I typically do not add fish to solve water quality issues. Need better tank maintanence starting with a real skimmer. I would continue with frequent water changes to gradually remove the pollutants. Watch the feeding and pull out as much algae as possible. Refugiums are another way to export nitrates and phosphates. Additional water flow can also help against stagnation induced algae growth. As soon as water quality can allow, lose the trickle filter. Bioballs are just nitrate factories, breaking down larger organics into soluble ones. There are few shortcuts to clean water and a clean tank . . .

Yeah long story short he took over his friends business that he was told was low maintenance and not much time involved, but to his suprise most of the tanks where neglected and all have poor water quality but only one with hair algae outbreak, was going to give him a bunch of corals for his clients and he brought over some water to test because he is lacking some test kits and to our surprise all tanks are high in phosphates and that is only what we tested. tomorrow I am going to do a full test to see where everything is at and then go from there and hopefully he has been fallowing along on this thread to see what really needs to be done to get this tank back on track. We figured the skimmer needs to be upgraded but when he took over a month ago he found that skimmer not even working properly. He has I think 5 salt tanks and 12 fresh water that he has for clients. He has a 55gl reef tank himself that he has had for many years and sure he isn't caught up on all the advances that this hobby has taken for the last few years but I think between everyone here we can get his clients tanks they deserve. I am a noob myself but kind of know a few things with my recent build well almost recent St Patty's day will be my tanks first year anniversary.

You guys think I should try to convert the trickle filter into a refugium or make/buy one.

 

[ReefGeeker]

You could try that but it may be easier/more effective to build/buy one.

 

[Gazbo]

Oh and yes we are not adding anything live to the tank until we can get the water quality back in track, at what phosphate levels would be considered safe to add critters not stock it but get a few things that will eat the hair algae after this major cleanning. What do you think would be the best critter/ fish to add to help with this battle. like I said before its a 250gl tank with a fire hawk, 3 clowns a royal gramma and some kind of beautiful angel that is yellow with bright blue on its top and back fins almost like a neon outline around the fish thinks its a queen angel

 

[ReefGeeker]

Oh didn't realize there was a tang in there already oops.

 

[Gazbo]

Oh didn't realize there was a tang in there already oops.

actually my bad its a queen angel not a tang

 

[Herefishyfishy]

With a month or two or three after adding a quality skimmer, regular water changes, gradual cleaning of the detritus from the sand and rocks, increasing the flow inside the tank; it will look crisp and sparkling again. The fish are not really the problem except for their probable borderline health.

At the risk of sounding gross, think of it as a toilet that never gets flushed. :yuk:Eventually gets pretty yucky. ainkiller: Within a month, perhaps a lawn might start growing out of it and other creepy things..:spider: Flushed regularly with enough water pressure, and scrubbed, it will be clean again. As to the trickle filter, it is fine for now and part of the bacterial filtration. Get the tank in better state before you dump it or turn it into a refugium. BUT, get a good skimmer immediatly! :amen:This part is vital. Then add some powerheads to get the water moving.
You will notice improvement across the board right away:yo:

Been fixing "broken tanks" since the 1970s

 

[Gazbo]

As far as skimmers go which one is a good one to go with, easy maintenace,cleaning etc... have a feeling that all 5 tanks will need new skimmers but wont know until I can check them out maybe if there is time after taking care of the 250gl I can go check out the other tanks

 

[Herefishyfishy]

There are dozens, perhaps 100s of good skimmers out there. The trick is fitting the right size to the right tank. Don't worry about over skiming, just over spending. Lots of used units at $0.50 on the dollar or less relative to new. Any skimmer designed in the last 5 years will probably be pretty decent. Get one that is rated for how many liters of air a minute it puts out as that defines it's power and rating.

As far as skimmers go which one is a good one to go with, easy maintenace,cleaning etc... have a feeling that all 5 tanks will need new skimmers but wont know until I can check them out maybe if there is time after taking care of the 250gl I can go check out the other tanks

 

[Gazbo]

yeah I was just wondering if one stood out, being at a businsess I am sure it only gets checked once a week by him so I don't know if one is more reliable. I am not sure how the whole maintenace thing works and sure I will over time if he wants my help further down the road I am happy to help when I can.

Thanks again for everyones help and suggestions it is really helping alot.

 

[Gazbo]

Well we could have done a little better cleaning out the hair algae but the water just got to murky to get it all there is still some stragglers in the sand bed and back wall but we removed the rock scrubbed it and it turned out good now its up to the cleaners to take control. The phosphates where down from 1.64 to 1.25 if memory serves me right mg was 1200 calcium 380 not sure on KH but we are raising that slowly also sure that will be his next battle now the live rock is exposed the coraline algae may exploded and keeping those levels up may be a challenge to maintain.

I think its now time to get a decent cleaner crew in the tank I know it has a bunch of turbo (astrae) snails, blue legs and a few emeralds and few other crabs not sure what kind but supposed to be great grazers.

Another issue to address is something to keep the sand bed stired its not fine sand more like the size of bb's, would sand shifter be able to dig ok if its not sand? Then I think a good gobby and pistol shrimp would be good addiction to the tank also, Is there anything else that would be good sand bed critters?

Last but not least since the tank is large and the client want more fish asap but to attack the hair algae a tang would be good now but shouldn't he be the last introduced do to the territory problems they have and we need to make sure to go slow not to add to much bio load at one time. Is there a good tang that's not to aggressive or adding one now to a tank this size should be ok for now and then add other fish when things are stable and water parameters are back to par.

 

[Herefishyfishy]

On a large tank, I love purples and yellows and even sailfins of both types. On smaller tanks, Tomini and other bristletooth tangs. See how long customer can be held off before adding a fish to a tank that has so many required changes going on.

 

[Gazbo]

We will do are best to hold him off as long as we can I was thinking if I could at least add a tang now then that might keep at bay for awhile and at least then there is a good grazer in the tank and then let the client know that he must see how he does for the next month before adding anymore and start making some changes to the tank to upgrade the filteration of the tank.

The tank had a normal ballast with VHO lighting is this ok we changed out the bulbs and they wouldn't light up maybe a small barely visible light in the bulbs I am assuming thats because the ballast isn't rated for VHO lights. Think we need a Icecap ballast for vho or put regular bulbs florescents in on the old ballast. This tank was really neglected and suprised the client didn't fire the previous owner but don't think there is many options for our area as far as fish tank maintenace co.

 

[Herefishyfishy]

Yes, VHO requires a specific output with much higher wattage (Very High Output).
You might want to consider selling the customer on an upgrade to affordible LED and save on electricity, heat, and the cost of changing bulbs.
Ocean by Design makes some amazing quality ones at the price of el-cheapos.
If he really wants to see a new fish, add a purple tang, but this will increase the water changing needs even more.

 

[ReefGeeker]

Wrasse's are great for stirring the sandbed.

 

[Herefishyfishy]

Wrasse's are great for stirring the sandbed.

Yes and so are sand sifting starfish and many type snails. Fingers work great too, especially during water changes near the siphon hose