How clean is too clean..

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SueT

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Jan 16, 2004
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I have been hearing this phrase for some time now and am wondering what everyone that keeps sps corals considers too clean as opposed to clean. I am having what I call a slow down in growth but all water tests are as stable as they have ever been. I am wondering if my running carbon and faithfully changing out my phosphate remover is keeping my sps tank too clean. I have never had such nice clean rock and I have no algae and I obsessively clean the tank glass daily.

What say ya'll...
 
After a conversation I had yesterday with another member Sue, I am wondering the same thing. I am thinking that maybe people with midsize tanks,(anything below a 180), may be taking clean to a new level. I honestly don't know if there is a correct definition of the word. All of our tanks are different, even tho they contain maybe the same animals, which runs back to the thought that what is good for one may not be right for someone else. Have you thought of easing off the phosphate remover slowly and see what happens. JMHO
 
running po4 removers constantly has been known to cause tissue recession. may want to up the load on the tank some. just my .02
 
ReeferPatt said:
running po4 removers constantly has been known to cause tissue recession. may want to up the load on the tank some. just my .02
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RTN is caused by the improper use of the GFO not the continued use of it. I'm with Sue. We have come a long way and us medium tank folks cant have the fish load of the big guys due to lack of territory. Seems simple to overclean/starve a tank.

Don
 
In Sue's case, whom I highly respect as keeper of the acro/sps, what she is seeing is recession from the bottom of the corals, not the top. That could be attributed to not enough light or flow. Although in her case I doubt that this is the case. The statement of p04 removers was just a thought. If her tank is to sterile adding more of a load in the way of a couple of tangs might be a way of doing that. Plus backing off on the Phos. removers.

Most all of her corals are frags or small colonies, that is why I say that lighting or flow may not be the problem. If flow was to be the problem, heck I'll just build her a couple more mj 1200 modds.

I myself run carbon 24/7 and phos. removers a couple of weeks every other month or as needed. But what works for me may not work for her or anybody else....
 
On the average I don't see or hear about tanks being too clean (at least not for long). Even if you are conservative with your fish count most of them grow much larger in a few years than when we purchased them. We also begin to feed them more as they are larger. This results in a higher bio-load. If you are keeping SPS corals they also tend to take over the tank in about 24-30 months reducing the volume of water and increasing the bio-load too. None of these factors in themselves make a big or sudden impact. It's kind of like the tide coming in :)

IME on average from 6-24 months or so it seems like we have everything perfect then slowly nuisance algae begins to pop up and it seems like we are doing the same things as we always were.

I use phosphate removers very sparingly. I do advocate water changes of 20% every 3-4 weeks.
I believe it is possible to have too clean/sterile water for some corals to grow as fast as they might but is very difficult to quantify what is the maximum growth rate for a certain coral. If you've had a coral grow at a certain speed for a few years and then it suddenly slows down, too clean of a tank would be way down on the list of things to check IMO. It's uncommon for the average Reefkeeper but not impossible :)

Regards,
Kevin
 
Ok, so let's assume that Sue's n03 and p04 are in check. She has 500w mh reeflux 10k bulbs. She does a water change of 10 gal. a week. She has good flow and runs carbon 24/7 along with phos. removers 24/7 in the proper amount for her 120gal sps dominated tank.

What's left? Could it be that alk is to high or to low? And if her Ca is at proper levels can that be possible? How about skimming? Direction of flow?

What else could or would cause stn or tissue recession at the base of some of her acros.
 
That's a good possibility, although I think she drips kalk at nite. That doesn't necessarily mean it's not possible, and on the case of the alk perimeters I think it would cause color loss more than tissue loss.:?: Whereas Ph swings could be more of a culprit. That is where a refugium would come in handy, to help control any ph swings. I don't think she's running one right now.
 
ReeferPatt said:
That's a good possibility, although I think she drips kalk at nite. That doesn't necessarily mean it's not possible, and on the case of the alk perimeters I think it would cause color loss more than tissue loss.:?: Whereas Ph swings could be more of a culprit. That is where a refugium would come in handy, to help control any ph swings. I don't think she's running one right now.
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Thanx, that just answered a question about my tank.:D :D :D

Maybe Sue will chip in and let us what her PH has been up to, or down to lately.:)
 
charlie said:
I just redid my fuge, and was noticing a lower PH, your comment about the fuge was the answer.:D
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Good deal, hope everthing works out. I like your quote, Rome wasn't built in a day.......and neither is a reeftank. Man isn't that the truth. Only I think a reeftank cost more...:D
 
Another thing to note is that as branching type SPS corals grow they kill themselves off at the base from lack of light and flow. This leaves the area open for lower light corals to grow (in the wild). That is how live rock is made :) I have many colonies that are 24-30" tall and 18-36" wide which have produced a few hundred pounds of live rock.

Regards,
Kevin
 
Sorry guys I had not recieved any updates that this post had replies. Well, Eric B. came by this morning as I did kind of panic. We have figured out that I have gotten some heavy metal in my tank. Due to my soaking garlic in my fish food and rinsing it in ro water but straining it and then feeding with the strainer. It had corroded around the entire lip of the strainer. So Eric suggested a polyfilter and tomorrow a 25g water change will be done.

So I think we are on the right track now. My water tests run Ca. 440-460ppm, 9.2dKh, 1350 mg., pH 8.1 nightly to 8.25 daytime. I do drip kalk at night. My flow is a magdrive 12 return, 2 mj mod's of the 1200 and another mj 1200 and mj900 not modded{yet}. no detectable po4, no no3,no4 and no amm.
 
We did a 25g water change today an things look very perked up. I am hopeful with the addition of the polyfilter will help.

I do have an old ecosystem mud bed with tons, literally tons of white tubeworms. Whether they filter anything I don't know but it's a pretty sight looking in the sump.
 
kevinpo said:
Another thing to note is that as branching type SPS corals grow they kill themselves off at the base from lack of light and flow. This leaves the area open for lower light corals to grow (in the wild). That is how live rock is made :) I have many colonies that are 24-30" tall and 18-36" wide which have produced a few hundred pounds of live rock.

Regards,
Kevin
Click to expand...

That is amazing Kevin, not may people can say they've done that:eek2:
 
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