How to keep the water off of the floor?

[ac7av]

I have had my display tank down for a while now trying to get it into a configuration that I will be able to live with for a long time. In other words not skimping on things that are important to the life that may be in the tank and the enjoyment of looking at it, also very important keeping the water in the system and off the floor. I have learned a ton of information on RF and wanted to get things done in a manor that I should have, could have and would have done if I even had clue about what I was trying to do or needed to do. I thought I knew but reading about it doesn’t even come close to what experience has taught me. One thing I have not seen much mention about is water back flowing into the sump threw the return pump plumbing. My original configuration had never had any problem with a siphon because the water was flowing into the tank at the water surface. With the new system I have 4 nozzles returning the water into the tank that are adjustable as far as the direction of the water flow but they will be 6 inches give or take under the water surface. The question is what are the precautions that you use to prevent the water flowing back into the sump threw the return system during a power outage or servicing the pumps? I looked at some one way valves at the hardware store but I just question how safe and reliable they are when critters could be growing in the valve and you would not know about it, that could stop it from sealing all the way off. A small tube off the top of the manifold feeding back into the surface of the tank but what if it got plugged with something and would it let enough air into the manifold to brake the siphon? I need some idea that is going to work 100 percent of the time without worrying about things like that, what do you do for this?

 

[akunochi]

There are some marine made check valves made with a union built in so you can disassemble them and ensure function-ability. I just went with dual ball valves. During storms I close the sump off and disconnect the pump. I can safely eave my Closed loop running for circ though. Temps will raise a bit but otherwise the tank is fine.

Another alternative I have heard about is electronic sprinkler valves. Something about wiring with reverse polarity so they close with a lack of power something something....iunno

 

[nsamouroux]

I drill small holes (1/16" or 3/16" depending on the size of the line) at or slightly below the water surface on each return line to prevent siphons when the return pump shuts off. If you put the holes on the back side of the fitting away from your lighting it will prevent algae buildup and it's not too likely that a snail or something will block the hole (I've never seen a snail on my return lines, would be a neat trick for them to get there in the first place). You could use check valves and whatnot, but I wouldn't trust them and most require regular servicing / replacement (yearly replacement? No thanks!).

Now if your return lines are plumbed through the wall / bottom of the tank instead of over the top like mine, you would have to tap the line and run a tube / pipe up to the surface somewhere pointing downwards into the tank but above the water line. If the siphon break is above the water line, there's not much that can block it, salt creep shouldn't be an issue because when the pump is running it naturally sends water through the siphon break hole and keeps it clear.

 

[balogh03]

I use this check valve
http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/store...ck-valves/1-true-union-swing-check-valve.html

It is clear so you can see anything in there, and there is no spring to rust up. Just make sure you put a shut off above the valve that way you can service it without being rained on.

Another alternative I have heard about is electronic sprinkler valves. Something about wiring with reverse polarity so they close with a lack of power something something....iunno

This is a great idea...I just installed a large sprinkler system at my boss's house, and would have never thought of this. The valves are always closed and only open when the main control panel sends 24v's to it. I just don't know how it would take to being open 24/7.

http://www.homedepot.com/Outdoors-G...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

Good luck

-augustus

 

[akunochi]

I use this check valve
This is a great idea...I just inst...splay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

Good luck

-augustus

Wow...I finally got a great idea here on RF....LOL AWESOME!!!!

 

[ac7av]

The sprinkler ides sounds like an interesting idea. That type of valve would certainly have the power to close off even if something may have started to buildup around the valve. Those are probably rated for up to 100 psi pressure. Balogh03, since you work with this kind of think I wonder aside from the duty cycle do you think this kind of valve would stand up to salt water? And Ill bet if you work with the stuff you probably have a favorite brand that you would consider a better quality then the average one you could find at the local hardware store. I wonder what the power requirements are for that valve. I am one of those people that look at PSE website daily and see what amount of power the house is using and I am always looking to cut back where I can.

 

[akunochi]

So even if it was the duty cycle coudn't you cycle it once a week or so by unplugging it and causing it to close a couple times?

 

[ac7av]

Well that’s what I’m wondering too. Most of the valves that I work with have duty cycles like 2 min on 30 min off. I imagine something like that sprinkler valve must have something like 100% duty cycle rating but I don’t know. I would think some peoples sprinkler system could run for hours at a time. Seems like if it does have a duty cycle that running for that long would cause it to reach its peek temperature. I did a quick search and the ones I looked at don’t say anything about duty cycle and some even say they are made for recycled water that may have debris in it and are self cleaning valves incase plant material or dirt gets into them they will some how clean it out of the way of the valve when closing and opening. Power consumption looks like there are 12 and 24 volt units and they seem to take some where around .5 amps to operate. Definitely worth looking into. These are definitely the heavy duty type of thing I was looking for.

 

[nsamouroux]

The sprinkler valve is a very creative idea (something I'd want to experiment with for some other DIY projects!) but in an application like this isn't it sort of a rube goldberg effect? Why rig up something that takes a constant power supply and depends on mechanical / electrical components when you can just use a small siphon break hole drilled above the water surface? Air gets introduced as soon as the return pump turns off, and the siphon collapses. No moving parts, no electricity, no maintenance, and it works 100% of the time; wasn't that the goal? :lol:

 

[akunochi]

Becuase some tank like mine don't break siphon for almost 15 gals or so. I would be interested in experimenting with the valve idea when I got some time.

 

[mfinn]

The syphon break holes is a very common idea, that I have used for years.
When you drill the hole, it's not something you can do and just forget about. It has to be part of your weekly maintenace. If you let coraline or any other algae grow over the hole, you have no protection.
Plus I drill 2 holes. Snails have a habit of being in the right place at the wrong time.
I like to put my syphon break holes about a 1" under the water line. If it's above the water line, water sprays out and splashes and creates salt creep in the area and bubbles in the water.

 

[mfinn]

Becuase some tank like mine don't break siphon for almost 15 gals or so. I would be interested in experimenting with the valve idea when I got some time.

Drill the hole closer to the waters surface.
On my 240 gallon tank, I have less than 10 gallons going back to the sump when the power is cut to the return pumps.

 

[mfinn]

In the past I used a combination of a single syphon break hole and a wye check valve, but have stopped using them because it was another point in my system I had to worry about.
http://www.championlighting.com/home.php?cat=440

The only way to be completely worry free, is to plumb your return lines so they are at or near the surface of the tank water, so that when power is cut to the return pump, only a few gallons goes back to the sump.

 

[akunochi]

I have the holes dried at the highest point in the return. The water just goes back through the locline on the return until it siphon breaks. It's just a bad design in nature, but hey the 180gal was free to me. (Just not all the equipment/lighting rock etc I had to buy to make it run :LOL)

 

[mfinn]

I have the holes dried at the highest point in the return. The water just goes back through the locline on the return until it siphon breaks. It's just a bad design in nature, but hey the 180gal was free to me. (Just not all the equipment/lighting rock etc I had to buy to make it run :LOL)

Maybe a bigger hole that would break the syphon sooner?


Free is very good.

But sometimes free can be expensive.:lol:

 

[akunochi]

SO far Free has kept me poor. Luckily the tank equipment wise is pretty much done minus a ATO being wired together.

 

[trido]

The water just goes back through the locline on the return until it siphon breaks. It's just a bad design in nature,

I completely disagree. Its a great method and on four tanks, in as many years Ive never had a sump flood using it. Its how 99.9% of reefers plumb thier tanks. Its basic plumbing. On my first tank, I found the drilled siphon breaks to be undependable and then started just plumbing my returns to only sit and inch or so below the water level. Its guaranteed to work as long as the tank is in your house, maintanance free.

With the new system I have 4 nozzles returning the water into the tank that are adjustable as far as the direction of the water flow but they will be 6 inches give or take under the water surface.

Why does a person need to plumb the returns four inches below the water level in the first place? Ive plumbed several very large systems for myself, friends and have seen a ton of others. I wouldnt recommend plumbing it this way. Its guranteed to flood, maybe not right away, but over the years, it will. NO matter what kind of fancy electronics you use.

 

[ac7av]

Well my concern with the hole was the chance of algae, snail, slug, or fill in the blank kind of critter getting into it and getting stuck or just blocking it at that special moment when it is needed. Salt creep is a concern. I did not want any surface agitation in the main tank. Putting a hole on the side of the return so I could monitor it would be the best choice but then there is surface agitation in that area, along with the growth of algae. If you put the hole on the back side it makes it inconvenient for servicing and monitoring the hole. I had a thought too, that would take maybe no maintenance and would be easy to monitor. What do you think about a vertical 1/2 clear tube with a T connection to the manifold that runs across the back of my tank that feeds the water back into the tank? There will only be maybe a rise of 1 to 2 feet of water in the tube when the pump is running and would be wide open at the top. The only thing that would stop the siphon would be someone setting a ping pong ball on top the tube and that’s not going to happen. This would work like the hole but eliminate the problem with critter blockage or agitating the surface of the water and I was worried about the size of the hole. Would it let in enough air fast enough to break the siphon?

 

[ac7av]

Hay trido
My only concern was the salt on the glass tops blocking the light and if I remove the glass then the salt and water getting onto my lights. That was the reason for the 4 inches below the surface. I just have gotten tired of cleaning them once a week. I just dreaded doing the maintenance on the glass. Its just such a pain. Having them ½ inch below the surface is exactly what I was trying to get away from to stop from having to remove the glass from the top of the tank all the time. I know what your going to say, just remove the glass. That’s just not a good option for me with 3 kids under 6 that like to throw things. I don’t want to find sponge bob in my tank. My first setup was like that and your right, there is not chance of failure. Worked perfectly every time the moment the water stopped.

 

[mfinn]

Why does a person need to plumb the returns four inches below the water level in the first place? Ive plumbed several very large systems for myself, friends and have seen a ton of others. I wouldnt recommend plumbing it this way. Its guranteed to flood, maybe not right away, but over the years, it will. NO matter what kind of fancy electronics you use.

I've been plumbing my returns alot lower than 4" below the water for over 18 years and haven't had a problem.
I know alot of others do it also.