hyposalinity treatment questions

[pebbles]

Hi Lee

On weds I received a fish that appears to be well infected with MI. By Saturday the sg was 1.011 in an established HT. Today its 1.010 and I'd like to verify my calibration before taking it down further. Yesterday the fish appeared to have collected new trophonts (or they just became apparent to me). My questions are:

1. at this sg, can the tomonts still excyst, releasing new theronts?
2. will free swimming theronts still survive at this sg?

I'm asking this to make sense of whats going on. Just that in the past by the time I've reached 1.010 the fish starts to look better wrt to reinfection. BTW I realise not enough time has pased to make this observation, but here it seems as though the cycle is still continuing; this protozoan doesn't seem to be 'stressed into submission' - at least not yet. Worst case scenario, which I'm seriously hoping to avoid, is that the fish has a different ailment.

Thanks for your time,
angie

 

[leebca]

In non-technical (professional) terms, the phase we see is when the parasite is 'pregnant' and getting ready to move to the next stage. The white speck is the parasites about to leave the fish.

The fish actually (usually) has many parasites that are not seen until they get to this stage. So, the fish can exhibit the white spot for a couple of weeks, after treatment begins.

The low sg is what stresses the parasites. It's important to note that the parasite is stressed by hyposalinity. Some do make it through once, through another cycle, but none make it a second time. That is why the treatment lasts for 4 weeks AFTER the last spot is seen.

I have found that the the low sg stresses not only the free swimming parasites, but the cyst itself.

Make sure your reading of sg is accurate/reliable and hold it around 1.008 to 1.009 if you can.

 

[pebbles]

Thanks very much for your input.

angie

 

[pebbles]

Well, time for an unfortunate update.

Don't think parameters are the problem. Theres no detectable nitrite, ammonia and the sg has been pretty steady since my OP at 1.009, with pH running at 7.8

The fish has still been battling the infection but this morning appeared noticeably worse. It was starting to regularly headstand on the bottom of the tank. It hasn't eaten for a few days yet seems a little rounder than it should be... this could be my imagination though. Is this actually related to the infection? Its a deepwater fish. Could it be a decompression issue, even though it was caught about a month ago?

 

[leebca]

Something's not right. I would not have expected any worsening of the fish's condition. I hate to say it. . .Are you sure of the diagnosis? Can you get any close up and clear photos to post?

pH is definitely not right. The hardest thing to control in hyposalinity is the pH. Since the salt isn't there to properly buffer the water, the pH can quickly get out of control. The pH should be slowly raised back up to the 8.1 to 8.3 zone. You'll find instructions in the hypo treatment post on how to do this. You don't want to raise the pH by more than 0.15 pH units per day. You need a good pH meter to do this real well.

 

[pebbles]

The fish died after a few hours ago. Her breathing was definitely worse. But she couldn't maintain buoyancy and kept headstanding and floating horizontally. She did this at the bottom of the tank, not the top.

RE: the pH. I would buffer the water to be changed daily with sodium carbonate. I maintained a pH of 7.8 because initially as sg dropped, I got a nitrite reading. So my thinking was even though ammonia was undetectable on my kit, its probably there and less toxic at the lower pH. For future reference, are you saying irrespective of other conditions the pH should always be at NSW levels?

RE: diagnosis. I am sure she had MI. Problem is I am not sure thats all she had by a long shot. Upon arrival the fish was given a dip, but did not seem better or worse for it. At that stage while some spots were visible what concerned me most were the gills as the breathing was extremely rapid.eg a few breaths per second. I gave up trying to count the breaths and did not think she would make the first night. But in the morning the breathing improved and the fight continued.

This is my second disease related loss in many years. Aside from the death of the fish which I find very upsetting, I'm now wondering what to do if I find myself in a similar situation again. Quite possible because I'm setting up another tank. I avoided Cupramine because I thought it'd be more stressful but am wondering if I should have dosed that to start. I have successfully used hyposalinity before, but a fish has never looked this bad almost a week into treatment. Finally, some of the harder to source fish are only available on order here.... so what you get is what you get (wrt to the health of the fish). I need to learn from this but now I don't know where to go from here.

 

[leebca]

Sorry to hear of the loss. I understand some of the challenges you face. I can make some suggestions and observations.

1. The pH should be maintained at the level the fish was introduced. If that pH is below 8.1, then it must be raised slowly and kept in the normal captive aquarium pH range. This is assuming the fish has no special/particular pH requirements.

2. Always better to obtain a fish from the LFS. You might get one or more local LFSs to specifically request a particular fish. Remember, the fish you get mail order also came from an importer/wholesaler -- so your LFS just has to link up with the right wholesaler.

3. If you must deal with mail order, then find one with a guarantee that would, under these same circumstances, have refunded your money or replaced the fish you lost.

4. I've been at wholesalers in Los Angeles and have seen employees drop fish on the floor, catch them, bag them and they go to the mail order sales. The edge of being present can't be beat.

5. You can't account, diagnose, cure, or treat every ailment. Most likely the fish had more than one problem, as you suspect. Rushing forward with Cupramine would not have treated every ailment, either. That is to say, I think you did what you could, under these circumstances.

6. The way forward is to take the above into consideration and, if you choose to remain in the hobby, be more demanding of those who supply you.