Ich Discussion between NeuroDoc and Steve-S

[NeuroDoc]

I think that this is likely where our discussion will need to take a different tack. You come to the discussion believing that C. irritansdoes not have a very high prevalence in the wild, while I believe that the prevalence is significant. I am not sure that we will ever find evidence of an actual number, for many of the reasons you list.

You raise many good points to question the outcome of this study. I am working on getting a copy of the whole thing, and if I do, I will e-mail a copy to you.

I have based my opinion on my basic education in parasitology and infectious diseases. I am not an infectious disease specialist, so I don't deal with this on a daily basis.

Let's change the discussion a bit with the following question:

What is the prevalence of sub-clinical infection with C. irritans for fish purchased at the average LFS? I have no data on this, but lets see if we can agree on a number so we can move forward with the discussion. 10-20%?

 

[NaH2O]

Beware, we both can get pretty nasty. :badgrin:

Well, you'll both have to sit and cower in the corner when a woman in a bad mood steps on the scene lolol j/k

Tagging along with this thread...

I haven't had a chance to read the links posted earlier, so hopefully I'll be better prepared to comment later. A few things I'd like to take into account on the LFS percentages....how long the fish has been at the LFS, how long it was in transit (the average LFS in the midwest will be different than those on the west coast), does the average LFS use copper, and how long it was held at the wholesalers? I think these answers would play a role in the manifestation of the disease.

 

[lovesalt]

I am also tagging along....

Great questions Nikki, I would also like to know about the prevalence of the disease in fishes at the LFS.

When you buy a fish at the LFS, and the fish has been at the store for a period of time, 2 days, 1 week, in a tank treated with copper, is there still a possiblily of a sub clinical infection? Where did the ich come from when you get the fish in your tank and it then gets ich, when there have been no other outbreaks of ich in your tank?

 

[NeuroDoc]

I am also tagging along....

Great questions Nikki, I would also like to know about the prevalence of the disease in fishes at the LFS.

When you buy a fish at the LFS, and the fish has been at the store for a period of time, 2 days, 1 week, in a tank treated with copper, is there still a possiblily of a sub clinical infection? Where did the ich come from when you get the fish in your tank and it then gets ich, when there have been no other outbreaks of ich in your tank?

Patience, my young padawan. We will get there in time.

 

[lovesalt]

I will wait my master.....

 

[Steven Pro]

As to the prevalence of Cryptocaryon in the wild, there are studies both ways. Some show it is rather common, while others can't seem to find it. It depends on which papers you read.

 

[steve-s]

What is the prevalence of sub-clinical infection with C. irritans for fish purchased at the average LFS? I have no data on this, but lets see if we can agree on a number so we can move forward with the discussion. 10-20%?

While I most definately agree it's there, to what degree would again be impossible to determine. When you consider many use copper or other medications and those that do usually incorrectly (not measured daily, used with substrates/rocks etc) it makes an estimate rather daunting. If you wish to use an arbitrary number to help the purpose of the topic, I have no issue with that.

As to the prevalence of Cryptocaryon in the wild, there are studies both ways. Some show it is rather common, while others can't seem to find it. It depends on which papers you read.

Exactly the problem, there is no consensus. While it may be plausible/possible, it doesn't make it an automatic fit.

Cheers
Steve

 

[Elmo18]

I'm going to have to jump in....aheem

Best,
Ilham

 

[Elmo18]

What is the prevalence of sub-clinical infection with C. irritans for fish purchased at the average LFS? I have no data on this, but lets see if we can agree on a number so we can move forward with the discussion. 10-20%?

For stores around Washington....the percentage is higher...but I better say,...IMO..

Best,
Ilham