In Wall - going for it! - seeking your ideas/feedback/advice

[LakeEd]

Ed - good advice man. I was hoping you'd chime in. $30 really isn't that big of a deal in the big scheme of things if you think I'd be wishing I went larger later down the road - I thought the barracuda might be overkill as is, but no?

I'm just using the "Krish school of flow" thought here, and the more flow the better! You can always put a valve on the output of the pump, and slightly cut it back if it seems to be too much flow for your system, but its hard to milk a pump into giving you more flow if it is slightly whimpy. For the difference in price, I just suggest getting the larger one from the beginning.

Hey, can I ask you a question. I remember you opted to go without an access panel above your tank which is in the garage. I also remember you opted to go without building a seperate room. In hindsight, would you have done different on either? Any other tips you can share with me about the in walls is totally welcomed as this will be my first attempt.

IF I had my druthers, I would of already extended my garage out 10', and made myself a seperate "Tank Room" in the garage. That WILL happen. Then again, I want a tank 8' long X 4' wide in-wall, and for that I'll need the extra room in the garage...so it all works together.

Your idea about some type of platform running around the tank is an excellent idea. I have to use a ladder even to feed every night, which is a pain in the backside. Just ensure you plan for easy access to your sump around that platform, if you are planning on your sump being under the tank.

One of the most WONDERFUL parts about my sump being in the garage, is I now have automated as much as possible with my tank, which I never had the room to do before. Plan for a place for your RO/DI filter. RO/DI water storage. Top-off container. Mix container... and all of those other things that take up space you never had space for! Hard plumb in waist water disposal from your RO/DI. Hard plumb in water removal from your sump for water changes. Hard plumb in water movement from Mix container back to sump... again for your water changes.

This in itself has made my in-wall worth it!!! I can now sit in my garage for about 8-minutes... flip a valve and empty 35 gallons out of my sump and down the drain, shut that valve, plug in a pump to pump 35 gallons into my sump from my Mix container, unplug pump... and my weekly water change is complete!

Scooty/Ed - what made you choose a MBV vs. an oceans motions? they seem more expensive. are they superior in your opininions?

For me, I have plumbed my close loop with 6-1" returns. 3 on top (middle actually) of the tank, and 3 on bottom. Using the Hammerhead pump, I figure 5800gph via 3 1" returns is PLEANTY of ummmmph! My plan is having the Motorized Ballvalve switch between my 3-lower, then 3-upper returns. For me, the main reason that I decided on the MBV was it was simplier to plumb, especially when factoring in my configuration. Try to figure out how to work in 6 returns into a 4-way valve... just gave me a headache! LOL :shock:

 

[LakeEd]

Something I forgot to mention:

Yes, it is harder to clean the front of the tank without access, but not un-doable.

Get a good STRONG mag cleaner (I use a Hammerhead, but a Tiger Shark would of been even better), and be very good about at least bi-weekly, if not every other day cleaning the front glass. If you let things go for too long, then you get the fun of leaning over your tank (between lights that leave nice burn marks) and scraping off that front glass.

Hummmm... that burn remark makes it sound like personal experience now, doesn't it?

 

[spongebob lover]

I'm just using the "Krish school of flow" thought here

ohh boy in that case he's gonna need a couple of Tunze in there :lol: :lol: .

 

[LakeEd]

ohh boy in that case he's gonna need a couple of Tunze in there :lol: :lol: .

I think even Krish would be happy with using say... 4 Hammerheads on a 120.

 

[spongebob lover]

I think even Krish would be happy with using say... 4 Hammerheads on a 120.

naww more like 5 :lol:

 

[mattseattle]

If it were my tank I'd go with Oceans Motions. It's really not that difficult to plumb and you have more options with it. You can easily change out the drum and create different scenarios of flow. With a MBV you are stuck with the side to side flow. Yeah, it works.... Also I didn't like the clicking of the MBV that I heard on others tanks. That is a small thing, I know. Also with an OM you only have one thing that can go out and that is the motor and it's pretty dependable. Also, the #1 reason to go with an OM is Paul @ OceansMotions. There is no better customer service in the world. He helped me from stage one of my design all the way till the tank was up and running. Even then I had a pump question once and he got me in touch with the right person at Sequence. I couldn't say a single negative thing about Oceansmotions.

 

[class clown]

Thanks Matt- good advice as always. Once I solidify my tank plans better, I'll give him a call. In the meanwhile, I'm just trying to put together an idea of what it basically looks like. So he sends it to you like fully assembled? all plumbing parts and everything?

I added a bigger pump, and a second suction line to the plans..

 

[mattseattle]

If you do the Plumb & Play he'll send you everything you need including pump. I found his pump prices and plumbing parts competitive in pricing. This was a few years ago so can't speak for now.

What is your justification for putting the 2nd suction line so far away from the 1st? I had mine about 8" apart in a vertical spacing. You just want to calm the suction down so a fish/etc. doesn't get stuck.

Thanks Matt- good advice as always. Once I solidify my tank plans better, I'll give him a call. In the meanwhile, I'm just trying to put together an idea of what it basically looks like. So he sends it to you like fully assembled? all plumbing parts and everything?

I added a bigger pump, and a second suction line to the plans..

 

[jezzeaepi]

MBV Vs OM 4Way

The biggest difference between the two is the type of flow they produce.

MBV's cant be run continuously, so they are good for switching a laminar flow from one side to the other. You can have it swich every 2 minute, 5 minutes, 10 minutes, whatever suits you. With an AC or other controller, you could probably put in a function to randomize how often it switches.

OM 4 Way has a drum inside the continously spins at a set speed of 1rpm. If you have it pumbed with the version 1 drum, it will hit each output with full force every 15 seconds. The transition between the outputs behaves the same way that it does with a MBV, meaning that while flow from one nozzle is decreasing, the next nozzle is increasing, untill it reaches full capacity, then it starts decreasing while the next one increases(as the drum inside turns) and so on.

-OM-
pros:
-Cheaper
-Silent
-Provides a more "chaotic" flow
cons:
-only one set speed
-looks like a rats nest once plumbed

-MBV-
pros:
-You control how often the "switch" occurs
-Easier to plumb
cons:
-More expensive
-Makes a sound similair to a "can opener" when its switching, but that wont matter with an in wall
-Requires some additional wiring



Good luck deciding =P

 

[jezzeaepi]

Id defintly consider an acrylic tank from Jason at CFI.(Thats what I am doing=P) I dont like to post quotes from people, but for the size tank I was looking at(125 G) my price quote beats everything on your list except the standard AGA.

 

[Scooterman]

, it will hit each output with full force every 15 seconds.

To me that is a down side, you never want full force on corals & diverting that much inside will take lots of loc-line & "Y's" IMO, maybe wrong but I like the wide softer flow like the Tunze Streams produce, which is basically what I have with the MBV but it is much wider like the entire side of the tank as in a massive wave. just thoughts Can't imagine full force in my 4ft tank & I use a 4200gph pump, hard to divert that much from a single outlet, maybe the OM can be configured to have multi-ports simultaneously switch, which would be cool!

 

[mattseattle]

To me that is a down side, you never want full force on corals & diverting that much inside will take lots of loc-line & "Y's" IMO, maybe wrong but I like the wide softer flow like the Tunze Streams produce, which is basically what I have with the MBV but it is much wider like the entire side of the tank as in a massive wave. just thoughts Can't imagine full force in my 4ft tank & I use a 4200gph pump, hard to divert that much from a single outlet, maybe the OM can be configured to have multi-ports simultaneously switch, which would be cool!

He's talking about the #1 drum - the other drums do it differently so you get a more gentle flow. I think I used #3 drum and it was 2 outputs on and it created a nice gentle but random flow. You can also get custom drums that will do about any type of flow you want.

It all really depends on how you plumb it. Drum #1 would work in quite a few scenarios depending on your output setup.

You can also put the OM on a timer if you wanted but I never saw the need to do that.

 

[mattseattle]

Id defintly consider an acrylic tank from Jason at CFI.(Thats what I am doing=P) I dont like to post quotes from people, but for the size tank I was looking at(125 G) my price quote beats everything on your list except the standard AGA.

Yeah, if I were doing acrylic again I'd definitely go with Jason. I just had a really bad experience with my last IAP tank. <sigh>

 

[class clown]

Thanks Jesse - I appreciate the time to recap. that helps a lot actually. thank you.

One challenge though - It seemed to me when I was looking at the descriptions on the web you can get different types of drums so that you don't have all 5600gph ripping out one jet. Here'e what I got from the web:

"Different drum versions give different flow characteristics.

Version 1 - has outlets running sequentially, (ie) 1, 2, 3 , 4, repeated.

Version 2 - will give a delayed sequence (ie) 1 & 2, 2 & 3, 3 & 4, 4 & 1, repeated.

Version 3 - has them opposed (ie) 1 & 3, 4 & 2, repeated. (Our best selling version)

Version 4 - Designed for use with our Revolutions units. Water is sent to 3 outlets at the same time."

check it out: http://www.oceansmotions.com/store/...id=32&osCsid=a78231b3000831156ee088a204371c18


Also, Maybe I want to space it out more so that I double the number of outputs I have? I.e, instead of 8, I would have 16.

thoughts on that?

 

[mattseattle]

Drum #1 just means it's pushing all the force out of one outlet on the OM. You don't have to have just that one outlet going directly to the tank. You could easily seperate it into 2, 3, 4 or 6 outlets if you wanted to.

 

[class clown]

Id defintly consider an acrylic tank from Jason at CFI.(Thats what I am doing=P) I dont like to post quotes from people, but for the size tank I was looking at(125 G) my price quote beats everything on your list except the standard AGA.

Jesse - got a link to your tank build/design? I'd love to see it. Yeah, I've talked to Mark (dragoneggs), Kirk (NC2WA), Matt (Mattseattle), Cy (Barrier reef), and now you, and Jason's quality is unmatched. If I go acrylic, that'll be my choice.

 

[jezzeaepi]

Hehe Im a slow poster. I typed out that whole om vs 4 way response, then walked away from the computer for a while then came back and hit post, but by then matt had beat me to it.

Sorry Ben I dont have anything on paper, it all just exists in my head at the moment. Im still about 3.5 months off from ordering my tank so nothing is in stone yet. What I am leaning towards is the design that mojo drew up here:
http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8922&page=5

I want to use the Version 2 drum, and hammerhead. I am still trying to decide how many loclines I want to do. I was considering 16 total loclines.(4 loclines on each "tee" in mojos diagram. That would give me a constant fluctuation of 0 to 600~ gph out of each nozzle, and with the version 2 drum it should be pretty random.

 

[jezzeaepi]

Oh, and I am doing my sump return to a 1 inch sea swirl for more random flow =P

 

[mattseattle]

jezzeaepi - sounds like a nice setup.

I used the Omni-flex nozzles and really liked them. I used Loc-line in my pod and it also worked well.

The only negative is the Omniflex only comes in 1" and 1.5". Paul does make a dual omni-flex now that is pretty sweet.

 

[mattseattle]