Jesse's tank build!(omg pls help =P)

[jezzeaepi]

Alright it is time for me to put my money where my mouth is and get this thing rolling. My focus for this tank will be mostly SPS, some clams possibly, and a decent fish load. My only experience thus far in setting up tanks is my 38G, and boy did I end up making a lot of beginner mistakes... It was a lot fun, but this is round two and I can't wait!

Theres a lot of beautiful tanks on this board, so I'm hoping you guys will chime in with some advice. Ive got a lot of ideas but no experience with running a bigger tank.

I don't have long to decide before I have to start ordering things. I have to make the tank choice within a couple days! Yah I know I'm a slacker. I wanted to start planning months ago, but after my roomates fell through I was without a house to move into a 125G tank with.. lol.. So I decided it was best to wait till I had the housing situation decided.

So before I bore you all to death, here are my ideas about tank choice. Let me know if there are any pros or cons that you think I am missing, and what option you would choose.


Option 1:
Tank:Custom Acrylic from CFI(56”l x 26”w x 21”t) 132G
Water flow: Hammer Head(5800gph) plumbed in a CL W/ half of it going to fixed loclines, and the other half going to a OM 4-way that will add help and some “chaoticness”.
Lighting: 2 x 250W MH with a HQI ballast and Reeflux 10ks, 4 54W Super actinic T5's in a canopy

Pro's:
Cheaper then Elos initially(more on this later)
Canopy + bracing provide some protection against carpet surfers.
Fully customizable flow options
continuous overflow along the back is vastly superior to elos over flow

Con's:
Canopy traps a lot of heat
Bracing blocks most of the light from the T5's, and some of the MH's.

Option 2:
Tank:Elos 120xl(47”l x 31.5”w x 19.5”t)127G These are rimless and braceless if you are unfamiliar with them
Water flow:2 tunze 6101's on a multi controller(3175gph x 2)
Lighting: 2 x those sexy black lumenarc reflectors with 250W MH's with a HQI ballast and Reeflux 10ks

Pro's
The open top look is very cool. Makes for a unique presentation.
By using Tunze, I am able to plug them into my UPS such that my tank will have 24hr's of backup power that kicks on automaticaly should anything happen. This way I will never loose anything to loss of water flow. I will be getting a generator as well, but having this redundancy for when I am not around is HUGE bonus in my book. I will not be able to do the same with the HH due to its higher power consumption
MUCH more efficient then option 1, so cheaper over the long run
Much easier to set up, hardly any plumbing involved
More light gets through the top, so less

Con's
Higher initial price(by about $1000)
Flow is nowhere near as customizable, but I have heard nothing but good things about tunze.
Will not be able to incorporate the T5's into lighting scheme without spending an arm and a leg for a MH + T5 combo unit that probably wont live up to my epxectations.
Carpet surfers =(

Rough Cost Comparison

-Purchase Price-Note that I already have a MH ballast and T5 bulbs and reflectors so they are not reflected in the lighting cost. I have also not included things that I will be buying regardless of what option I choose.

Option 1
Tank: ~1000
Stand: ~750
Canopy: ~450
Plumbing: ~300?
Flow: ~850
Lighting: ~420
------------
Total $3770

Option 2
Tank: ~2650 after shipping
Stand: ~750
Canopy: 0
Plumbing: ~50
Flow: ~950
Lighting: ~420
---------------------------------------
Total $4820

-Cost to operate-

Option 1
Running HH for 1 year: $244 (350W*24Hr*365days)/1000(to get Kwh)*$.0793
Running T5 for 1 year: $70 (220W*11Hr*365days)/1000(to get Kwh)*$.0793
Replacement bulbs: $100
-----------
Total $414

Option 2
Running tunze for1 year: $50 (72W*24Hr*365days)/1000(to get Kwh)*$.0793
----------
Total $50

Another thing to take into account, which I cant figure out any way of quantifying, is the amount of extra work the chiller will have to do in option 1 to counteract the extra heat added to the system due to the canopy. I think 30-40 dollars does not sound unreasonable.

Therefore Option 1 costs about 400 dollars more a year to run, so 2.5 years is the break even point to where elos starts to actually become cheaper.
I should have a job in Elos marketing =P


Anyone still reading? So what do you think?

Peace,
Jesse

 

[DonW]

Definately option 2. Besides the money savings monthly I think it will be easier to maintain and keep you happier longer. The open top setups have higher DO lovels thus healthier enviroments. The japanese figured this out a long time ago. The light options for pendents and t-5 are growing daily but I would look at the geisman sp?

Don

 

[blind1993]

i would say to like combine the 2 options. also the first option tank is going to better because it is longer so tangs will like it more if u get some.

 

[Reefdaddy1]

Could not Justify the Elos cost in my book,

Option three:
Tank: Pick one with Low Iron glass ( starfire)
http://www.glasscages.com/?sAction=ViewCat&lCatID=2

Stay with the Lighting from Option one and you have the best of both worlds., IMHO its better to build what you want then take what a Company gives you. Plus its more fun.

Utilize open top but install these.
http://www.michiganreefers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24897

Continue on with the sequence pump and go with the MBV as well.

 

[class clown]

Oh Jesse - I'm proud of you my man. This is going to be totally, totally awesome! In my book, I don't think you can't go wrong with either of the two options you've laid out there. I love CFI's tank and I can appreciate it even more knowing that they're hand made. And I love the look of Elos b/c they are so unique. I think it's going to come down to a personal choice my friend in whatever you want more and whatever suits your needs-- one I know is not an easy decision to make. I'm sure you are just like I was a few months ago - consumed by the thoughts/choices of your options.

A few thoughts -
I LOOOOVE the continuous overflow - can't say enough good things
I really like the customizable flow - especially if you're doing SPS
I love the look of an elos tank - and like that it's glass too so you can avoid scratching
Jason or Barrier reef will treat you right either way you go - i've had great experiences with both

So yeah.. what it comes down to is personal choice. You can't go wrong w/ either of these combos you've laid out here. good luck and you can be sure I'm staying tuned to the thread.

 

[Scooterman]

That one pump running 24/7 will cost you more electricity the two tunze & lights together. Add it up & you'll be amazed at how much a 24/7 pump adds up power consumption.
I agree get all the input & all said & done you personal choice should be the determining factor.
Kinda wish I'd start all over on my new tank, as you learn things change & you realize how much better, easier & cheaper you can get things done.

 

[jezzeaepi]

Don-
Do the Japanese have problems with their fish jumping out of their open tops much? I know your planning to do a crazy overflowing rimless set up and wondered if you had though about that much. This and aditional cost are probably the two biggest problems I have with with option 2. I also took a look at geismans hanging fixture and they are pretty nice but expensive =\ 1500 bucks for one my size vs 420~ish to keep my current option. I may just have to go with my current lighting option, then maybe in a year or so there will be a little more competition in the market and Ill be able to get one for around 1000.

Reefdaddy1-
Yah I know it seems crazy paying 1600 extra for the tank in option 2. Believe me Id lie to people later if they asked me what it cost =P To me the biggest justifcation for doing it is for the open top look. For some reason I find the look mesmerizing with all the ripples in the surface and the brightly colored corals that are obscured below. However if I did a closed top tank, Id want it to be acrylic and plumbed for a massive CL. This was actually my original intention(which is why I have a HH sitting in my closet lol) but a few days ago the elos option popped into my head and I was suprised about how close the price was once the yearly operation costs were figured in.
Hehe from what I have read glasscages wont be coming to seattle anymore =P(or maybe that was someone else, but I am pretty sure it was glasscages) I have to work with someone local due to my time constraints. The tank needs to be in my hands by aug 31 or I am going to have to waste $1300 to rent my current apartment for an extra month by myself.

Blind1993-
I have heard the same about tangs, and I definitly will be getting some. Although my tank will be a little shorter then what some recomend, I believe that the extra width and the open rock design that will afford me will be enough to offest its shortness.


Ben-
This is a tough decision indeed! As you know I was originally all set to do option 1.
"I LOOOOVE the continuous overflow - can't say enough good things
I really like the customizable flow - especially if you're doing SPS
"
Yah me too =\ Why yah gotta make this so hard for me to decide =P
The one thing that does suck is I can't seem to find many pictures of rimless tanks set up... I did find this gem last night:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=1131379 secksay

Scooterman-
"That one pump running 24/7 will cost you more electricity the two tunze & lights together. Add it up & you'll be amazed at how much a 24/7 pump adds up power consumption."
Yah it kind of silly how much power they draw. When I did the calculations and realised the elos tank becomes cheaper in 2.5 years I was quite amazed.


Alright Im going to go put my thinking cap back on and sit in a corner till I figure this out. I got to put my order in like tomorrow...:shock:

 

[DonW]

Don-
Do the Japanese have problems with their fish jumping out of their open tops much? I know your planning to do a crazy overflowing rimless set up and wondered if you had though about that much. This and aditional cost are probably the two biggest problems I have with with option 2. I also took a look at geismans hanging fixture and they are pretty nice but expensive =\ 1500 bucks for one my size vs 420~ish to keep my current option. I may just have to go with my current lighting option, then maybe in a year or so there will be a little more competition in the market and Ill be able to get one for around 1000.

I hear ya on the lights thats one reason I'm building my own. On the fish jumping I wouldnt cover the top of a tank canopy or not. Ive lost fire fish only. The way I look at it, if they are going to jump they will do it canopy or not. I found a fire fish stuck to a metal halide bulb, would have happened wether I had a canopy or not. Deciding on what fish you may want is part of deciding what tank to buy.

Don

 

[class clown]

Ben-
This is a tough decision indeed! As you know I was originally all set to do option 1.
"I LOOOOVE the continuous overflow - can't say enough good things
I really like the customizable flow - especially if you're doing SPS
"
Yah me too =\ Why yah gotta make this so hard for me to decide =P
The one thing that does suck is I can't seem to find many pictures of rimless tanks set up... I did find this gem last night:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=1131379 secksay

he he.. that's what I do.. make things harder than they need to be - don'tcha know that about me by now Jesse;-) It sounds like you're leaning towards Elos a little bit the way your post was written and some of the discussion that has taken place afterwards. I think you'll be happy with either Elos or a CFI. Each option has it's plusses and minuses and you did a great job laying them out in your first post. The only pluses/minuses I'd add are

1) Acyrlic is lighter and typically more clear than glass (unless you use Starfire)
2) Acrylic also scratches easier and can get crazing over time whereas your seems just split on glass although I do beleive CFI's tanks come with a warranty.
3) you dream it, it can be built with acrylic - seriously, the sky is the limit w/ tank, flow, overflow, black out sides, peg boards, starboard, etc.

I'd do whatever you're gut tells you to do my man. I know either way you go vendor wise, you'll be taken care of. I am happy with my choice to go CFI and I have no regrets about that. You will have the same outcome with your tank decision either way you choose - these both sound like fantastic setups.

and, one more option for you that I'll throw out there... you can always do an over the top closed loop w/ OM or a ball valve if you decide on glass. It can be done. Duane (Trido) has a beautiful over the top closed loop setup with his glass tank and it works great. Of course it may take away from some of the coolness factor of the rimless tank, but just thought I'd throw that out there for ya to chew on.

And when

And, who's to say you can't do an over the top closed loop on the Elos. Ever seen Duane's (Trido's) tank - he did it and it worked out great!

 

[blind1993]

yea it may be short but u will make up for it but i might not try more than 1 yellow for that. but i dont have much exp on tanks larger than 55g.

 

[pitmam01]

My opinion is: Wrap up all your money, make sure they are all "unmarked" bills, send them to me. I will take a trip to the Islands and take a bazillion underwater photos for your photo album. That way, you don't have to make any "life altering" decisions as to which system to set up. That way, we're both happy!!!! At any rate, good luck!!!!

 

[jezzeaepi]

I thought about it some more today, and I am heavily leaning towards option 2. I think in the interest of having a smooth setup with no hickups, its probably best to forgoe a complicated plumbing setup. Im going to have to set up the tank and fill it in one day most likely. Also, my power draw would be too high and I would need to install additional circuits with option 1. Since this is going in a rental, I think Ill try to KISS. Oh boy am I excited =)

 

[blind1993]

option 2 is nice but i like the tnak in option 1 better.

 

[trido]

I think both options are nice. I love my built in but have a few wishes and learned opinions. Regardless of your desicion, your electric bill and salt costs are going to go up.

• Option 1
• Con; Acrylic has no forgiveness for scratching. My four year old and a mag float proved that real quick
• Pro; Acrylic is customizable and can be drilled easily for later bulkheads if necessary
• Pro; A hood makes it easy to hide wires, fans and equipment also alowing for less expensive (uglier) fixtures
• Con; A hood holds heat
• Pro; A hood helps to keep suicidal fish in
• Pro;A CL the way you described (exactly how mine is set up) allows for almost infinate flow options
• Con; a Barracuda is noisier than a couple Tunzes
  
  
  
• Option 2
  
• Pro; A frameless Elos Tank is just plain cool
• Pro; Glass doesnt scratch as easily as acrylic.
• Pro; A frameless Elos tank gives you much bragging rights.
• Pro; A frameless Elos makes most reefers real jealous
• Pro; An open top alows for great O2 exchange and heat escape
• Con; An open top alows fish to commit suicide or be pushed over board
• Con; Tunzes leave more High and low flow areas than a CL with 16 loc lines
• Pro; Tunzes are much quieter than a CL
• Pro; Tunzes are "plug and play" and dont require sniffing PVC glue for hours on end

I could go on and on. If you remove the jealousy and coolness factor in option 2. The two are nearly tied in pros and cons. I didnt try to make them that way. IMO I just touched on the big issues.

Id go with the ELOS just because they are sooooo pretty.

 

[jezzeaepi]

Trido-
I really hadn't though about the noise that much, good point. Depending on the place we get, it might be in the TV room, or possibly my room depending on the floor plan. Something that isn't distractingly loud would be best, but then again I sleep with a fan a few feet from my head so background noise doesnt bother me much.

Although I am a bit dissapointed about not being able to do a tricked out custom plumbing job, I think option two fits my situation better. If was in a home I owned and could do a custom in wall, it would be option 1 without a doubt.


Anyone have any input on stand height? The tank is ~20 inches tall, so I was thinking of having the stand be 36 inches, so water surface would be about 56 inches above the ground. This will put the water line about 9 inches below my eyes. Im trying to balance not having to get on your knees to look in the tank(like my current 38G), with still being able to get a good perspective when looking down in from the top.


Peace

 

[Scooterman]

Trido-
Anyone have any input on stand height? The tank is ~20 inches tall, so I was thinking of having the stand be 36 inches, so water surface would be about 56 inches above the ground. This will put the water line about 9 inches below my eyes. Im trying to balance not having to get on your knees to look in the tank(like my current 38G), with still being able to get a good perspective when looking down in from the top.


Peace

My stand height from the top is 32" but my tank is 24" tall & to me is about as perfect as I can get, so your 20" tall tank @ 36" stand would be the same & to me is good, leaves plenty of room inside the stand, I actually climb inside mine often to work on things, it is tight but I squeeze my belly in there! LOL

 

[DonW]

My stand height from the top is 32" but my tank is 24" tall & to me is about as perfect as I can get, so your 20" tall tank @ 36" stand would be the same & to me is good, leaves plenty of room inside the stand, I actually climb inside mine often to work on things, it is tight but I squeeze my belly in there! LOL

Although I like the higer the better way of thinking. With a open top without braces its tough. With my current tank its open top and 36" stand with 21" of tank. No big deal I can lean on the tank my hands and arms can be supported by the braces to keep my balance on the stool. Without the braces it would be a drag being so tall.

Don

 

[trido]

My stand is 42" tall with a tank of 24". I need a small painters ladder to do Anything at all. Its great for viewing but a real drag for maintanance.

Regardless, If I had to do it over. I'd go tall.

 

[blind1993]

if he gets fishes that like to jump then just get some egg crate or something finer and u cant see maybe a net like on the fish nets.

 

[jezzeaepi]

Scooterman-

Great minds think alike!(or maybe we are both 5'10 =P)

Donw-
Thats a good point. I wish I had a 120xl to practice my reach on rather then standing around my living gesturing with my tape measure looking like a crazy person. :lol: The tank is 31 inches wide, which is pretty extreme. I think I may drop it an inch or two so I don't need a spotter while doing maintenance... I can just see me standing on a ladder trying reach the back of the tank, and falling face first =P

Trido-
I definitly would be nervous standing on a ladder leaning over my tank with nothing to grap, so thanks for the visual there.

blind1993-
I think Ill just have to be satisfied with not purchasing anything known to jump. Which is fine, because most don't, but there are definitly lots of cool ones that do. Wrasse are some of my favorite fish for example. With my current tank I have had to avoid jumpers as well.


So it looks like Im going to head down to BR today and place my stand and tank order. For the stand I am doing black oak(to match the tank and lights) with just regular flat doors and no lip around the bottom rim. I think this will provide the cleanest overall look.

Peace,
Jesse