kent Carbon
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DonW
R.I.P.
Doesnt matter their price is fair and I couldnt ask for better service. It been the the cleanest carbon Ive ever used. The Rox is different but I doubt I'll find that it was worth the extra money.
Don
Boomer
Well-known member
I will not disagree with that. I have been trying to get more people to get Jim's carbon but they just dont' listen 
I put it on the list and nobody asks
It been the the cleanest carbon Ive ever used
It is the cleanest carbon I have ever seen
I put it on the list and nobody asks It been the the cleanest carbon Ive ever used
It is the cleanest carbon I have ever seen
Boomer
Well-known member
xfisher
Yes, just change it more often.
Yes, just change it more often.
Thank you very much Mr Boomer. The link provided has clear all my doubts. :idea: No more question
Boomer
Well-known member
Ok, glad to have helped
Jan
Well-known member
Boomer, is there anything to the theory that some carbons extract compounds from the water column more quickly and therefore are "stronger" carbons, and some have a slower effect and thus are more "gentle?" I have been using a carbon by Korallen-Zucht--as you know they never publish their ingredients--but on the Zeovit website this carbon is described as being a slower acting more gentle carbon than most on the market. It's very expensive by the way...
Boomer
Well-known member
Yes, carbons can can do that for a couple of reasons.
1. The amount of active surface it has. Not surface area but Active Surface Area. ASA, meaning the number of sites that can adsorb things. Carbons can be processed for more active surface area, such as C-GAC, Catalytic Activated Carbon.
2. Pore size. If one is using a carbon with lots of small pores like CC, it is not going to take out much in med to large molecules. You go to a Lignite or Wood and it takes things out fast due to its pore size. And lets tie in Density with this.
3. Grain size, which should be obvious as to why.
All GAC is a function of its pore size, Density, TSA and ASA.
It's very expensive by the way...
A line of BS as far as cost goes vs. what it does. I would challenge them to explain that to me. I would have field day with it
But are there GAC's that are less active but have greater capacity. So, yes, to a point. Carbon A can have more capacity than Carbon B, which is more active than carbon A but A can remove more of x substances even though it is less active.
Case in point: If trying to remove Chlorine from the water.
We do not care about active sites / say, as the Chlorine is reacting with the carbon surface itself, thus the one with more surface area, more pore vol, has more capacity for removing chlorine even though it has less active sites.
If one selects such a carbon, based on its parameters, they can get a carbon more suited to their needs. That is why there are 100's of kinds of GAC.
I'll bet you anthing if I saw their data sheet I could find the same thing much cheaper. In short, I think they are full of BS
1. The amount of active surface it has. Not surface area but Active Surface Area. ASA, meaning the number of sites that can adsorb things. Carbons can be processed for more active surface area, such as C-GAC, Catalytic Activated Carbon.
2. Pore size. If one is using a carbon with lots of small pores like CC, it is not going to take out much in med to large molecules. You go to a Lignite or Wood and it takes things out fast due to its pore size. And lets tie in Density with this.
3. Grain size, which should be obvious as to why.
All GAC is a function of its pore size, Density, TSA and ASA.
It's very expensive by the way...
A line of BS as far as cost goes vs. what it does. I would challenge them to explain that to me. I would have field day with it
But are there GAC's that are less active but have greater capacity. So, yes, to a point. Carbon A can have more capacity than Carbon B, which is more active than carbon A but A can remove more of x substances even though it is less active.
Case in point: If trying to remove Chlorine from the water.
We do not care about active sites / say, as the Chlorine is reacting with the carbon surface itself, thus the one with more surface area, more pore vol, has more capacity for removing chlorine even though it has less active sites.
If one selects such a carbon, based on its parameters, they can get a carbon more suited to their needs. That is why there are 100's of kinds of GAC.
I'll bet you anthing if I saw their data sheet I could find the same thing much cheaper. In short, I think they are full of BS
Jan
Well-known member
Well none of will see KZ's data sheet without committing industrial espionage....
I have found once that when I used EVC carbon after having used Kent for a long time, I had TN on a couple of corals within 24 hours. So at this point I am liking the idea of a carbon with hightened capacity but maybe less "active" as you say. Do any of your recommended carbons fit into that category--especially one that does not introduce PO4 into the system?
I have found once that when I used EVC carbon after having used Kent for a long time, I had TN on a couple of corals within 24 hours. So at this point I am liking the idea of a carbon with hightened capacity but maybe less "active" as you say. Do any of your recommended carbons fit into that category--especially one that does not introduce PO4 into the system?
Herefishyfishy
Smart Bass
DonW
R.I.P.
I really dont know how much is in the bag. They are bagged to fill a chloramine rodi crartrige. I like to buy 10 bags at a time and just change them monthly, one bag every two weeks, so two bags in the sump at all times. I just toss the whole bag into a sock and then into the sump. No hastle, no rinsing and no mess.
I also use a glass slow flow ozonizer that flows into another bag of the same carbon. Of course use it on my rodi and water change filters along with rowa.
http://www.thefilterguys.biz/chloramine_filters.htm
Don
Herefishyfishy
Smart Bass
Thanks, I will tell them Don sent me :>)
DonW
R.I.P.
They are good people. The price may seem high but by the time you pay shipping it works out in the long run. They are the only place Ive dealt with that do not profit from shipping. Almost every time I order, I get a credit back stating that the shipping was cheaper than anticipated.
Don
Boomer
Well-known member
I have found once that when I used EVC carbon after having used Kent for a long time, I had TN on a couple of corals within 24 hours. So at this point I am liking the idea of a carbon with hightened capacity but maybe less "active" as you say.
I dont' buy any of this at all If you feel there is an issue just use less GAC. Same opition on PO4.
I dont' buy any of this at all
If you feel there is an issue just use less GAC. Same opition on PO4.Jan
Well-known member
I'm sorry? What don't you "buy?" You said earlier:
So for the sake of clarification I am just asking which of your recommended carbons might have this description of being less active but having greater capacity.
So for the sake of clarification I am just asking which of your recommended carbons might have this description of being less active but having greater capacity.
DonW
R.I.P.
Basicly you switched from a "poor" carbon to a decent carbon unknowingly overdoing it to quick. Once you have a system of using good carbon you should be able to switch it out at will as long as you dont wait to long. This takes a little trial and error but once you get it figured out you will be able to use as much as you want quickly with no ill effect.
Don
Jan
Well-known member
okay, so it was an overdose situation....
Boomer
Well-known member
So for the sake of clarification I am just asking which of your recommended carbons might have this description of being less active but having greater capacity.
I know but all you need to do use less of even a high grade of GAC. If you use less it is the same thing more or less. We are not dealing with selective adsorption.
First, I think you mean ESV Carbon and not EVC. Second, actual Capacity vs Activity is hard to determine in this hobby as the aquarium companies rarely give you or let you see a GAC data sheet which spells it all out more or less. Which, IMHO, is so much nonsense, like they all have some special super carbon :lol: There is nothing special about their carbon. Third, even GAC Manufactures don't give some kind of # for ASA. This is when it is time to go to the phone and talk to the carbon chemist, if it is a real issue, otherwise it is a good guess based on a data sheet, Fourth, Capacity vs. Activity can be a confusing issue. For example, CC carbon has much greater capacity than say Lignite but a lower activity, if dealing with very large molecules. The CC has the capacity but it just plugs up, so we can now say lower activity alos.. However, if we are dealing with very small molecules then the CC has the capacity and activity. If on the other hand Lignite will have a much greater capacity and activity for large molecules but will be small for small molecules as they just kinda wash out, thus lower activity and capacity.
**Real activity** is more or less held to carbons like that from thefilterguys, where the carbon is specially treated for greater Chloramine removal. In the GAC industry ASA deals with gases and the reaction on the surface of the carbon with those gases or strong oxidzers like ozone, chlorine etc.. We are using GAC as a molecular sieve and adsorber. GAC works two basic way for us in filtering tank water.
1.) Like a skimmer as both are a large function of hydrophobic action.
2.) As a sieve, a fine net/filter that just traps things through narrow channels and dead ends.
So, activity is only an issue with select chemicals. Lastly, you are a really buying into to much to the Zeovit BS line
Can you "overdose" ? Yes you can, either buy using to much of a med grade carbon for the starts or using a poor grade carbon and then using to much high grade next time around and usaully in poor tank conditions.
I would buy your story if your tank was poorly filter for a long time and you went from the Kent to ROX .
What Don is saying, more or less, is once the "animals" are broke in so to speak, from the higher nutrient load to a lesser load, you can increase the amount or kind of GAC. In time, you could use as much GAC of what ever kind you want, although you would be just wasting it....overkill. 1-3 tablespoons / gal is a good guide, depending on GAC type and how much you "thinK' you need.
What don't you "buy?
Although ESV is better carbon unless you used a lot more I can not see it stripping the system of nutrients to fast to cause an issue. To often when we change things the first thing we do is blame what ever is was we just did and often it is not. However, it may have been you did not rinse the carbon and some kind of impurities go into the water.
Sorry if I came off as a grouchy old man Sometimes it just comes out the way
I know but all you need to do use less of even a high grade of GAC. If you use less it is the same thing more or less. We are not dealing with selective adsorption.
First, I think you mean ESV Carbon and not EVC. Second, actual Capacity vs Activity is hard to determine in this hobby as the aquarium companies rarely give you or let you see a GAC data sheet which spells it all out more or less. Which, IMHO, is so much nonsense, like they all have some special super carbon :lol: There is nothing special about their carbon. Third, even GAC Manufactures don't give some kind of # for ASA. This is when it is time to go to the phone and talk to the carbon chemist, if it is a real issue, otherwise it is a good guess based on a data sheet, Fourth, Capacity vs. Activity can be a confusing issue. For example, CC carbon has much greater capacity than say Lignite but a lower activity, if dealing with very large molecules. The CC has the capacity but it just plugs up, so we can now say lower activity alos.. However, if we are dealing with very small molecules then the CC has the capacity and activity. If on the other hand Lignite will have a much greater capacity and activity for large molecules but will be small for small molecules as they just kinda wash out, thus lower activity and capacity.
**Real activity** is more or less held to carbons like that from thefilterguys, where the carbon is specially treated for greater Chloramine removal. In the GAC industry ASA deals with gases and the reaction on the surface of the carbon with those gases or strong oxidzers like ozone, chlorine etc.. We are using GAC as a molecular sieve and adsorber. GAC works two basic way for us in filtering tank water.
1.) Like a skimmer as both are a large function of hydrophobic action.
2.) As a sieve, a fine net/filter that just traps things through narrow channels and dead ends.
So, activity is only an issue with select chemicals. Lastly, you are a really buying into to much to the Zeovit BS line
Can you "overdose" ? Yes you can, either buy using to much of a med grade carbon for the starts or using a poor grade carbon and then using to much high grade next time around and usaully in poor tank conditions.
I would buy your story if your tank was poorly filter for a long time and you went from the Kent to ROX .
What Don is saying, more or less, is once the "animals" are broke in so to speak, from the higher nutrient load to a lesser load, you can increase the amount or kind of GAC. In time, you could use as much GAC of what ever kind you want, although you would be just wasting it....overkill. 1-3 tablespoons / gal is a good guide, depending on GAC type and how much you "thinK' you need.
What don't you "buy?
Although ESV is better carbon unless you used a lot more I can not see it stripping the system of nutrients to fast to cause an issue. To often when we change things the first thing we do is blame what ever is was we just did and often it is not. However, it may have been you did not rinse the carbon and some kind of impurities go into the water.
Sorry if I came off as a grouchy old man
Sometimes it just comes out the way
DonW
R.I.P.
Sorry if I came off as a grouchy old man
Thats what happens when your as old as carbon.
Jan
Well-known member
I beg to differ. The fact that I am questioning what their recommendations are and the rationale behind them, and doing a modicum of research as to the logic/theory behind the recommendations, means that I am not buying in too much. Just going the process of learning. I've been trained as a critical thinker and I don't believe that has changed. Perhaps you are jumping to conclusions because of your own preconceptions about the "Zeovit BS line".
(no offense intended.)
