lets talk Reef Foods

[DonW]

So DonW- you would not recomend the blue coral method or bacteria straight up? Is it your impression that blended freash food mixes are not being used directly to any great degree? Would not feeding the spectrum 10x day also be a way of cranking up the volume on bacterial production in the tank?

Anyway-not like I am actually going to run out and dose bacteria- just trying to get some good discussion about all these feeding methods (and what they actually feed) going.

Also- still thinking that food between 50-500 microns would be best- anyone else have a product that they do like?

Cheers,
Tracy

Feeding many times through out the day makes for heathy seemingly happy fish. I do not belive in starving the fish for the sake of water quality. If you cant keep water quality in check and feed your fish then a system upgrade is in order.
The high protien methods do work but are not for the casual reef keeper. The system has to watched and baby sat closely. I dont really believe that most will have good luck, and a crash is right around the corner.
50-500 microns? Ive got a sailfin and a couple other tangs that will be happy to give you any micron size you want. Just give them some chow.

Don

 

[SueT]

so Don are you saying that I am going to to see a crash and burn right around the corner???

 

[CarlaW]

Sue, I don't think he is saying that. I think what he is saying is that the "pappone" is not for use by the casual reefer. You have to watch and keep track of what is going on, and note changes to your system. JMHO

 

[Brenden]

I agree. It can be done. However anytime you boost something abnormally in a contained enviroment like bacteria with sugar, vodka, etc there is a fine line between success and failure.

 

[little fishes]

DonW I am with you on the good feeding, nutrient export, and fish poop "supplements". Still, I want to get input on other supplements. I have a fish low environment anyway.

The trend right now seems to be these blended food mixes and it seems many people are using one of the "established" recipes or making there own variations. Still it all seems like indirect feeding? Also there are plenty of threads on these feeding methods right now so I wanted to see more about commercially available diets or other alternatives for coral feeding.

Studies have shown that photosynthetic corals with access to zooplankton food source do better(calcification rates, growth, symbiotic algal counts, rates of photosynthesis, etc), and that particle size is important but varies for different organisms. Also based on a plethora of hobbyists comments, fed corals do better, but excessive nutrients is often a problem as is the system crashing from inconsistent feeding with associated die off and the like. I think excessive nutrients and crashing can be avoided with proper husbandry but it would be nice to know what foods (readily available to hobbyist) can be used by the corals directly to avoid an even greater excess of nutrients-and I cant find any good studies or even anecdotal evidence. That is why I am interested in particle size and what constitutes quality ingredients -for someone wanting to try some of these diets-what should we look for? Are there any reviews of such topics published that I missed?

Cheers,
Tracy

 

[Damsel13]

What are zooplankton food sources? A broad view.

Thanks in advance,

 

[DonW]

DonW I am with you on the good feeding, nutrient export, and fish poop "supplements". Still, I want to get input on other supplements. I have a fish low environment anyway.

The trend right now seems to be these blended food mixes and it seems many people are using one of the "established" recipes or making there own variations. Still it all seems like indirect feeding? Also there are plenty of threads on these feeding methods right now so I wanted to see more about commercially available diets or other alternatives for coral feeding.

Studies have shown that photosynthetic corals with access to zooplankton food source do better(calcification rates, growth, symbiotic algal counts, rates of photosynthesis, etc), and that particle size is important but varies for different organisms. Also based on a plethora of hobbyists comments, fed corals do better, but excessive nutrients is often a problem as is the system crashing from inconsistent feeding with associated die off and the like. I think excessive nutrients and crashing can be avoided with proper husbandry but it would be nice to know what foods (readily available to hobbyist) can be used by the corals directly to avoid an even greater excess of nutrients-and I cant find any good studies or even anecdotal evidence. That is why I am interested in particle size and what constitutes quality ingredients -for someone wanting to try some of these diets-what should we look for? Are there any reviews of such topics published that I missed?

Cheers,
Tracy

Your probably already doing what you want, indirectly. Zoo food sources for your fish are easy to come by thus your feeding the zoo source to your corals. I dont think there is a product on the arket with a particle size small enough to feed sps.

Don

 

[bbehring]

This is a great DIY food thread from Inlandreefs.net http://www.inlandreefs.net/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=44&topic=810.0

 

[little fishes]

Yeah- I think your right Don, thing is most research I am aware of says that heterotrophic feeding is at least as important as autotrophic and that you can never get close to food particle availability on the reef so I still want to find alternative supplements(sufficient nutrient export to complement could be another thread?!).

I was going to try to compile some references I have read and just now I found this http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-12/eb/index.php by E. Borneman that references many that I read and many I didnt. A good little briefing of what was known up to 2002 (other part of the series on Bacteria, phyto, and particulate matter are good too).
Also a 2004 article on feeding and growth here http://jeb.biologists.org/cgi/content/full/207/9/1461
and an interesting article about recycling nutrients by coral slime netting here (maybe a little off topic but a cool observation) http://www.nature.com/nature/journa...l;jsessionid=48F586B60FE34C24957164B19F1E2084

Any way, the particle sizes most often found to be consumed by these corals studied is about 1 micron to 1.5mm. There are commercially available foods in these size ranges (some listed in the 2nd post)so it is not a matter of if they are available, but rather how nutritious they are, if they are accepted by corals, and what to look for/avoid in such feeds. Also I was looking for more food ideas I had not seen/considered- like the spectrum pellets-thanks for pointing those out!

Cheers,
Tracy

 

[little fishes]

bbehring- thanks for the link is that the recipe you use? How long and what are your impressions?

 

[IndyMatt]

I was suggest some people look at Rod's Food. It is basically blender mush but with oyster eggs and other things thrown in. With all of the ingredients in it, I could not DIY cheaper than buying it. Of course, I can buy it locally and not have to pay shipping so that does make a difference.

Here is a link:

http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=RR-FOOD-6&Category_Code=Mysis

 

[swissgaurd]

ive tried some foods and ended up tring prodibo, corals grow like mad my zoos are out of control, i have a blue tort that has grown approx, 3/4" in 45 days.
easy to use

vic

 

[little fishes]

IndyMatt and swissgaurd,
Thanks-The prodibio site was a little confusing I saw a lot of supplements but not a food- what do you use swissgaurd? IndyMatt- I like that for a blendered recipe- I find it interesting that they use the golden perals in there own commercialized mix- might be worth another look. I still whould like more info on yeast and whey as ingredients in coral feeds first before considering giving them a try.

Cheers,
Tracy

 

[swissgaurd]

IndyMatt and swissgaurd,
Thanks-The prodibio site was a little confusing I saw a lot of supplements but not a food- what do you use swissgaurd? IndyMatt- I like that for a blendered recipe- I find it interesting that they use the golden perals in there own commercialized mix- might be worth another look. I still whould like more info on yeast and whey as ingredients in coral feeds first before considering giving them a try.

Cheers,
Tracy

yes the site can be of confusion it took me 3 months of searching what to use.
i first start off with the bioclean/biogest to clean the system of sludge ,nitrates and phosphates,after 45 days i started feeding reefbooster which is a food,its a natural bacteria.also the bioclean/ biogest is natural bacteria.
prodibo works alot like zeovit but the expense and maint. is far less.

vic
vic

 

[little fishes]

Thanks for the clarification vic!
looks like the bioclean is a few strains of nitrifying bacteria and some trace element that the company claims "speeds up the reproduction of purifying bacteria" Interesting that they do recommend dosing bacteria weekly! and the biogest is amino acids, fatty acids, and pigments. So basically very small building blocks that may be absorbed by the coral through active transport? or maybe just meant to be another supplement for indirect feeding ie eaten by things the corals then eat? Probably not meant for heterotrophic coral feeding though?

 

[swissgaurd]

Thanks for the clarification vic!
looks like the bioclean is a few strains of nitrifying bacteria and some trace element that the company claims "speeds up the reproduction of purifying bacteria" Interesting that they do recommend dosing bacteria weekly! and the biogest is amino acids, fatty acids, and pigments. So basically very small building blocks that may be absorbed by the coral through active transport? or maybe just meant to be another supplement for indirect feeding ie eaten by things the corals then eat? Probably not meant for heterotrophic coral feeding though?

this may help understand it a little more
http://www.aquariumspecialty.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=312

vic

 

[Reefdaddy1]

I have been reading on a new totaly organic food that out of england. No roids or gluten. Its trace elements and some other nutrients that is soaked in the fish food, the fish eat it and take what they need and deposit the rest into the corals, Any left over flake or whateever is then eaten by the corals. The colors are outstanding and Growth is comparable to gluten results. As I read more I will update on the site.

 

[little fishes]

Thanks Vic- I may read some more about it later too.

Bob- waht is the name of the food you have been looking into?

 

[Reefdaddy1]

It does not have a real name yet. It will be in the US we hope in June. My new compnay will the dristributor for it. Look for it soon.

 

[Passinetti2007]

This is an interesting thread. I am not sure I feed properly. I was told that just formula one cubes would be fine and when I have fish (which I don't at the moment) that the formula one cubes will be just fine. I keep it in my freezer and cut small tiny chuncks out and feed once a day. I have a feeling I'm not doing it right. Should I add more too it and how big of portions of this stuff do I need to put in the water?