Live sand as a substrate?

[thecapn]

I want to use live sand as a substrate to mimic a "real tropical reef."

I've read that the live sand is a great natural biological filter, but some hobbyists stay away from sand beds.

What cons are there to a live sand substrate?

 

[Krish]

Hmm...Well, for starters I'll say, if it is a deep sand bed, the cons would be things like not being able to stir the bottom layer of the sand where it is anerobic or else you'll have problems which means you'd have to be careful on the livestock you choose so that they wouldn't be down there stirring up things and also, being careful with flow placement so as to not cause a sandstorm. Shallow sand beds, I'd say have to be vaccumed weekly to remove any detritus/waste so that it won't break down and cause water quality issues...

 

[thecapn]

I see. What about employing the use of crustaceans that clean the sand, and sand-sifting fish?

 

[Krish]

I see. What about employing the use of crustaceans that clean the sand, and sand-sifting fish?

Yeah...They work well. I don't know very much about running a deep sand bed, so I couldn't say for sure how they work out in there, but I have had ssb's in the past and have had all types of critters, but I mostly rely on good husbandry to clean up things. Like they say, you put in critters to clean up, but they poop as well! So now, I have a bb tank and only have a few snails in there.

 

[thecapn]

What's the alternative to a sand bed, finely ground coral?

 

[Krish]

What's the alternative to a sand bed, finely ground coral?

Yeah...People use aragonite or crushed corals. I've used them before on my first ever saltwater setup. The grain looks just as it sounds...Crushed corals. There are pieces of shells etc thoughout it.

 

[thecapn]

Hmmm.. what's the best for a diverse reef setup? Lots of inverts, corals, fish, etc...

 

[Krish]

Well, that one will all be a matter of personal opinion. My opinion is I don't really like crushed corals. I had a bad experience before using it so I stay away. Also, I don't like sand in my tank either. Well...Put it like this, I love sand, but my bare bottom tank with white PVC board down in much easier for me to take care of. I think I will stick with bare bottom as long as I have a saltwater tank. Here is my tank with the white pvc board bottom...

 

[dpaynter]

There is a lot of debate on this issue. Do a search on deep sand beds (DSB). Let me oversimplify and say there are three main camps.

Bare Bottom (BB)
No substrate at all - detritus is vacuumed out or there is enough turbulence to carry the detritus out the overflow and it is collected in a filter sock.

Shallow Sand Bed (SSB)
A decorative layer of sand (1 inch or so) - this is not deep enough to maintain a live sand bed; detritus must be vacuumed out of the sand bed periodically.

Deep Sand Bed (DSB)
4 or 5 inches (or more) of live sand. This is deep enough to develop an anaerobic layer for processing nitrates and support bacteria and microfauna in the sandbed to process detritus. There is a slow diffusion of water and nutrients through the layers. You DO NOT want creatures that extensively disrupt the sand bed like some fish or sand sifting sea stars that devour the small animals that make the sand bed live. You want worms, pods, etc. living in the sand bed and creatures like nassarious snails, fighting conches, cucumbers, etc that feed off the detritus on the top of the bed.

All three camps have their proponents and successful tanks. What most would say is you do not want a layer of crushed coral on the bottom of the tank. This traps the detritus and (while it may support pods and worms) doesn't support the smaller animals to continue processing the detritus.

 

[MikeS]

good summary dpaynter ....

No absolutes to this question....I've had all 3 major setups and a few others over the years, they all have advantages and pitfalls. As advised above....research, reseach, and then research some more. It's not easy to decide what setup to go with long term, you'll likely end up picking one that seems to suit your immediate needs. That's ok, but just make sure you have a decent grasp on the pro's and con's of that setup before you dive into it, that will make you more educated and prepared to deal with any sidetracks you will experience.

About the only concrete piece of advice I can offer here is if you decide to go with a SSB or DSB, skip the "live sand"....get dry sand instead. You'll save some $$$ and end up with the same end product.

MikeS

 

[thecapn]

There is a lot of debate on this issue. Do a search on deep sand beds (DSB). Let me oversimplify and say there are three main camps.

Bare Bottom (BB)
No substrate at all - detritus is vacuumed out or there is enough turbulence to carry the detritus out the overflow and it is collected in a filter sock.

Shallow Sand Bed (SSB)
A decorative layer of sand (1 inch or so) - this is not deep enough to maintain a live sand bed; detritus must be vacuumed out of the sand bed periodically.

Deep Sand Bed (DSB)
4 or 5 inches (or more) of live sand. This is deep enough to develop an anaerobic layer for processing nitrates and support bacteria and microfauna in the sandbed to process detritus. There is a slow difusion of water and nutrients through the layers. You DO NOT want creatures that extensively disrupt the sand bed like some fish or sand sifting sea stars that devour the small animals that make the sand bed live. You want worms, pods, etc. living in the sand bed and creatures like nassarious snails, fighting conches, cucumbers, etc that feed off the detritus on the top of the bed.

All three camps have there proponents and successful tanks. What most would say is you do not want a layer of crushed coral on the bottom of the tank. This traps the detritus and (while it may support pods and worms) doesn't support the smaller animals to continue processing the detritus.

Thanks, this is exactly the sort of comparison I was looking for.

So with a 1-2" layer of aragonite, I would have to vacuuming, right?

I might stick with the DSB.

 

[Krish]

Thanks, this is exactly the sort of comparison I was looking for.

Definately a great summary...I thought you just wanted the cons like you stated in your first post and not a substrate description/technique...My bad

Previously posted by thecapn
What cons are there to a live sand substrate?

 

[thecapn]

What about ~3" of dead sand, with plenty of detritus cleaning inverts?

 

[ethanriley]

"Dead sand" IMO will eventually have the same cons as live sand as when you add "live rock" you will add organisms that may find homes in your sand. I think in making your substrate choice you need to be more specific as to the types of corals, fish and inverts you plan to keep. For SPS there is a large contingent on the forum that would say BB is the way to go. Krish has BB and I have what I would consider DSB. I practice good husbandry but he has far less algae issues than I do. If you go with SPS corals I would go barebottom

 

[MCary]

The best thing about live sand is that you get to tell all your friends how much you spent on dirt. Regular argonite will become live soon enough. The advantages of live sand are not worth the cost.