Losing faith in Salifert.

[Boomer]

I agree with Don and if sending in a sample not AWT but Lab Aquatics, which uses real equipment as in ICP and it is the same price.

http://www.labaquatics.com/

IO, well let me put it this way. I used it for 30 years, Randy Holmes-Farley uses it only, Craig Bingman only used it also and most public aquariums use it also. Getting off on what salt is the best is meaningless. Most reefs are not at what we call std NSW anyway. What works best for you is the salt to use. You can be successful with almost any salt. Just because IO is low in Ca++ is a poor excuse to say the least. People make it sound that if they have to boost up their Ca++ with IO it is like they just lost a house payment. I will add that many are switching from IO to RC and only because it is higher in Ca++ and Mg++.

Looking at that PinPoint Ca

IMHO not a good choice as it is a ion selectivity probe but yes is does work to test seawater but not to leave the probe in the water.

Electronic Calcium Monitoring
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-04/rhf/index.htm

 

[DonW]

I agree with Don and if sending in a sample not AWT but Lab Aquatics, which uses real equipment as in ICP and it is the same price.

Looks like their prices fell quite abit, very cool. FWIW IO only takes 30 Ca and 40 Mg ml of diy two part per 5 gallons to bring up to 400 and 1300, less than a penny ea.

Don

 

[barrierreefcf]

One thing to add to the feedback on your original question about problems getting help with your bad kit. Elos has a very active sponsors forum over at RC and their phone number is readily available. Jesse at Elos USA personally mails out replacement kits if there are ever problems. In two years of selling Elos we have taken back 4 kits and two of those turned out to be user error. This is much better than any other hobbyist kit I have sold in my 18 years in aquarium retail.

 

[tamarindthai]

i 'd been used selifert for the past 5 years ,,and i still using them,out of date/ throw it away,,store in hot temperature for long period of time/throw them away,i used twice aweek a set did not last too long tobe ready for new set .

 

[NaH2O]

Hmmm - I'm glad I found this thread. I had been having problems with a few corals, and my parameters were fine, according to my tests (salifert). I started to wonder about my alkalinity, so checked it against a friend's LaMotte kit. I was surprised at how "off" my salifert kit was (the kit read a lot higher). I'm not saying that all Salifert test kits have gone bad, perhaps my kit went bad sometime ago (despite it not being expired). I just wanted to add to this thread that I was pleased with the LaMotte alkalinity kit, and found the color change easy to see. My only suggestion is to use a 5ml syringe from the Salifert kit to get your test water and add it to the test vial, unless you know when you fill a vial to read the water at the bottom of the meniscus. My friend and I had this discussion because he thought the vial was off, but when I checked it it was perfect at the bottom of the meniscus. Although, I suppose if you do the test the same every time you use it, the overall change/trends in tank water is more important. I'm not sure what the error in these kits are. OK...I've rambled on too much

 

[luke33]

IMHO salifert test kits are worthless. After throwing out two i'll never use them again. I had an alk kit and it was off the charts wrong, then i was told to buy another one, so i did and it wasn't even close, so then i had to buy a different kind. API for 10bux, took its results. Then checked with a lfs and the api was dead on with them. I got zero support from salifert as well. Habib went away as bad test kits started poping up. Literally leaving tons of unanswered problems with tons of upset people. So if you buy salifert here's what you are getting. Zero customer support and ify results.

 

[Gordonious]

Luke, "Then checked with a lfs and the api was dead on with them. " Does your LFS have a lab or are they just using another API from the exact same batch?

A lot of people on this forum seem to have really good LFS that they trust.

I've made up my mind. Zero customer support means I am no longer a customer. If there product was perfect I would stick around, but no product is perfect and a company should stand behind it's product.

I'm going to start by ordering a Elos ALK kit tonight.

Barrierreefcf do you buy their products direct or can you give me the name of the wholesaler that sells them? I would like to start carrying their product in our store as well.

Thanks everyone for your input,
Jon

 

[luke33]

Jon, was tested with an API of the same batch and an elos test kit. They were both within one dkh of each other. The salifert's were reading twice as much.

 

[loohunter]

the elos kits are nice. i wish the calcium kit was a bit more precise

 

[DonW]

I'd like to also mention. If you have a questionable test kit and go to a LFS to have it checked, watch them test the water. Make sure you understand how to use the kits they are using. I went to a LFS this past week end. A guy walked in asked for an ammonia test. The employee used and IO test kit. Dumped in packet #1 gave it a shake then dumped in packet #2 and with another quick shake held it up and said " your good no ammonia". Not thinking anything about it I saw the guy check out with almost $500 in live stock ten minutes later. I ran back for fish food and noticed the poor guys ammonia was off the charts, the test was as green as phyto.
The employee had no clue you have to wait 15 minutes to see the results.

Don

 

[Boomer]

Nikki

How far off is your Salifert ? A Salifert should read ~10 % higher than other kits, as all other kits read seawater Alk to low by ~10 %. However, some recent tests ( 2 wks) on 5 Alk kits side by side on the same water sample showed all about the same with the *new Salifert more like 20 % to high, which is not good. All of these kits were new, par a old style Saifert, which read what it should have 10 % higher. These tests have not been posted anywhere, as it was a private phone conversation with me by the tester. In short.... LaMotte, Elos, API = ~9 +/- 0.1 dkH (depenting on kit) , old Salifert ~10 dkH and new Salifert ~11 dKH

Don

Looks like their prices fell quite abit, very cool

Who's prices ? You are not confusing Lab Aqautics with ENC Labs are you ?

 

[DonW]

Nikki


Looks like their prices fell quite abit, very cool

Who's prices ? You are not confusing Lab Aqautics with ENC Labs are you ?

Ya I am, after going back and looking at the web pages. I'm going to try lab aquatics in the next couple of weeks just to see how it goes.

Don

 

[Boomer]

Great Don I need to know

I do not know what they do at Spectra for Ca++ but ask them for me. AWT uses ISE which is not a good idea IMHO, as there are lots of issues if you do not know what the hell you are doing. LA and ENC use ICP the way to go I was planned on dropping LA on you, hoping you would try them LA is also ISO cert..The only thing that bothers me about LA is just like AWT, no phone number to call them and ask questions, unless you e-mail them first. And no address for me to chech up on them.

 

[DonW]

Great Don I need to know

I do not know what they do at Spectra for Ca++ but ask them for me. AWT uses ISE which is not a good idea IMHO, as there are lots of issues if you do not know what the hell you are doing. LA and ENC use ICP the way to go I was planned on dropping LA on you, hoping you would try them LA is also ISO cert..The only thing that bothers me about LA is just like AWT, no phone number to call them and ask questions, unless you e-mail them first. And no address for me to chech up on them.

I'll pm you the log in info when I get it. I'll do the cheap test first to see if service is ok then Ill do the full meal deal if the first goes ok. Could have sworn awt was a just a division of aquamedic or something like that anyways.

Don

 

[Boomer]

Yes, AWT (Aquarium Water Testing) is a division of Aquamedic. You were the one that found that out for me,.i.e., same exact address This Lab Aqautics is *new I want to know who they are tied in with, as they seem to be hidding just like AWT was.

 

[DonW]

Yes, AWT (Aquarium Water Testing) is a division of Aquamedic. You were the one that found that out for me,.i.e., same exact address This Lab Aqautics is *new I want to know who they are tied in with, as they seem to be hidding just like AWT was.

I think they are in canada. We'll see when I get the package. They are fairly well hiden and their inc is not ca.

Don

 

[barrierreefcf]

Luke, "Then checked with a lfs and the api was dead on with them. " Does your LFS have a lab or are they just using another API from the exact same batch?

A lot of people on this forum seem to have really good LFS that they trust.

I've made up my mind. Zero customer support means I am no longer a customer. If there product was perfect I would stick around, but no product is perfect and a company should stand behind it's product.

I'm going to start by ordering a Elos ALK kit tonight.

Barrierreefcf do you buy their products direct or can you give me the name of the wholesaler that sells them? I would like to start carrying their product in our store as well.

Thanks everyone for your input,
Jon

You can buy them retail from us at www.barrierreefaquariums.com. PM sent with more info on wholesale.

Cy

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

Yes, AWT (Aquarium Water Testing) is a division of Aquamedic. You were the one that found that out for me,.i.e., same exact address This Lab Aqautics is *new I want to know who they are tied in with, as they seem to be hidding just like AWT was.

Doing a little research on LA's whois info, looks like the domain owner of their website has the same address as these folks...

http://www.seadsolutions.com/index.html

Also... ISO certification doesn't mean squat. I've been involved in ISO programs before and all it means to be ISO certified is that you have procedures in place to insure the customer gets what they ordered. Doesn't mean the procedures work! Here's a quick blurb regarding that specific ISO certification - I've added the bold emphasis:

ISO/IEC 17025:2005 is for use by laboratories in developing their management system for quality, administrative and technical operations. Laboratory customers, regulatory authorities and accreditation bodies may also use it in confirming or recognizing the competence of laboratories. ISO/IEC 17025:2005 is not intended to be used as the basis for certification of laboratories.

 

[aquariumdebacle]

it means more than those that are not certified

 

[Boomer]

Kurt thanks for the research As far as ISO goes and its definition it still says allot Laboratory customers, regulatory authorities and accreditation bodies may also use it in confirming or recognizing the ***competence of laboratories Don guessed Canada for some reason and that looks like home base.