Lost male clown - trying to save female
- Thread starter robojet
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robojet
Active member
It looks the same as when I posted here: http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54984
robojet
Active member
Any suggestions on using the StressGuard? Don't know if it's a cumulative effect or not... if I added 5ml yesterday and 5ml today, does that mean there's an effective dose of 10ml in my tank? Or does it lose it's effectiveness and it's really only 5ml? I'm trying to figure out how to manage water changes.
Also, it isn't clear how long I should do this before I can expect to see improvement (or decide this isn't the right treatment).
Advice welcomed... thanks!
Also, it isn't clear how long I should do this before I can expect to see improvement (or decide this isn't the right treatment).
Advice welcomed... thanks!
I believe you can add more, daily, for no more than a couple of days or until you do a huge water change. In a quarantine tank arrangement, there are no chemical filters which would reduce or affect its concentration. However this is just an estimate.
If you don't see any improvement in a few days, then it is not the 'answer' to the concern. However, it has improved the mucous coating of the fish and whether or not you see positive results, it has done at least this.
You might want to send an e-mail or telephone the manufacturer for more accurate answers.
If you don't see any improvement in a few days, then it is not the 'answer' to the concern. However, it has improved the mucous coating of the fish and whether or not you see positive results, it has done at least this.
You might want to send an e-mail or telephone the manufacturer for more accurate answers.
robojet
Active member
I need to do a better job of researching... I found the answer on SeaChem's website FAQ:
Q: When using StressGuard, does one add the recommended amount one time only and with water changes or do you repeat the dosage daily...or other?
A: StressGuard is safe to use every 24 hours (the active ingredient dissipates in a 24 hour period)
Q: When using StressGuard, does one add the recommended amount one time only and with water changes or do you repeat the dosage daily...or other?
A: StressGuard is safe to use every 24 hours (the active ingredient dissipates in a 24 hour period)
robojet
Active member
Sorry this took so long... here's some photos of the fish.
1) Neon Goby - he's one of the fish that caused the problems. He's really looking good, except for the tattered fins. I noticed the tattered fins when I originally put him in the tank - I'm unable to judge if it is the same or worse
2) Basslet - It has blotchy areas on it's body. Also, I noticed the tail fin looks like a bite was taken out (I only noticed this recently)
3) Tang - also has blotchy areas around it's mouth/face. Also very recently noticed the tail fin problems here.
I am hopeful that the ick and other parasites have been eradicated. I don't know if the Cupramine treatment has caused these other problems. Not sure what the fin issues are, but I have considered that the female clown may have taken some bites... but I've never seen her go after the basslet or tang so maybe it's something else?
I'm currently treating with StressGuard. Any ideas on the blotches and tail issues?
Thanks!
1) Neon Goby - he's one of the fish that caused the problems. He's really looking good, except for the tattered fins. I noticed the tattered fins when I originally put him in the tank - I'm unable to judge if it is the same or worse
2) Basslet - It has blotchy areas on it's body. Also, I noticed the tail fin looks like a bite was taken out (I only noticed this recently)
3) Tang - also has blotchy areas around it's mouth/face. Also very recently noticed the tail fin problems here.
I am hopeful that the ick and other parasites have been eradicated. I don't know if the Cupramine treatment has caused these other problems. Not sure what the fin issues are, but I have considered that the female clown may have taken some bites... but I've never seen her go after the basslet or tang so maybe it's something else?
I'm currently treating with StressGuard. Any ideas on the blotches and tail issues?
Thanks!
I recommended that you use the antibiotic Maracyn Two. That antibiotic fights/kills Gram Negative bacteria. You now need to finish/stop the StressGuard treatment and switch to the use of an antibiotic that will fight Gram Positive bacteria.
Unfortunately, Gram Positive bacteria are also the kind of bacteria that make up the biological filter. So, I would not be surprised if you will have water quality problems. The usual way of handling this is by very frequent (twice a day) very large (over 90%) water changes or water changes combined with the use of a chemical filter.
Anyway, you should now find an antibiotic that contains NITROFURAZONE (in the product Furan-2), or NIFURPIRINOL (found in products that are listed to contain Furanace or may be called Furanace). Just follow the directions on the medication.
Have we checked out what you are feeding the fish? The diet and nutrition will be very important to their full recovery, just as important as the water quality.
Unfortunately, Gram Positive bacteria are also the kind of bacteria that make up the biological filter. So, I would not be surprised if you will have water quality problems. The usual way of handling this is by very frequent (twice a day) very large (over 90%) water changes or water changes combined with the use of a chemical filter.
Anyway, you should now find an antibiotic that contains NITROFURAZONE (in the product Furan-2), or NIFURPIRINOL (found in products that are listed to contain Furanace or may be called Furanace). Just follow the directions on the medication.
Have we checked out what you are feeding the fish? The diet and nutrition will be very important to their full recovery, just as important as the water quality.
robojet
Active member
Oh Holy Cow
Feeding... I have a feeder that is setup to spread out small amounts of flake 4 times a day (like 1:30, 3:30, 5:30, 7:30). In addition, I feed them a frozen cube around 5pm everyday (brine, mysis, spinulara brine - thawed and soaked alternatively in VitaChem or Selcon). I usually feed the cube over a period of 30 minutes to an hour.
I also have been putting about a 1"x3" piece of seaweed in every other day for the tang.
I will look for the new antibiotic... but can you elaborate on what I am treating for? Is it the spots? The fin issues? both? Any idea what it is?
THANKS!
Feeding... I have a feeder that is setup to spread out small amounts of flake 4 times a day (like 1:30, 3:30, 5:30, 7:30). In addition, I feed them a frozen cube around 5pm everyday (brine, mysis, spinulara brine - thawed and soaked alternatively in VitaChem or Selcon). I usually feed the cube over a period of 30 minutes to an hour.
I also have been putting about a 1"x3" piece of seaweed in every other day for the tang.
I will look for the new antibiotic... but can you elaborate on what I am treating for? Is it the spots? The fin issues? both? Any idea what it is?
THANKS!
Last edited:
robojet
Active member
I should also mention, there are 2 fish that seem to be perfectly fine (clown and hawkfish)... is it OK to treat them with the gram positive antibiotic?
A properly nourished marine fish in excellent water quality can repair its fins in about two to three days.
Things go wrong when nutrition is low and/or water quality is low and/or there is disease.
The fish exhibit, based upon photos a bacterial infection and a low nutritional diet (in my opinion).
You tried one antibiotic and it didn't work. Now you try the other. Most bacterial infections are Gram Negative (over 75%) so it makes sense to try that one first, especially since it doesn't affect the biological filter.
Had the fish had an expert vet with it, the vet would have identified the bacteria and chosen the correct antibiotic suitable for that specific bacteria.
I would suggest you alter your feeding. Pellets and flakes are the lowest quality of marine fish foods, adding pollutants to the water that fish don't and can't digest. Fish can't digest wheat or land products which are often found in these foods. They pass through and become wastes. Those 'wastes' just feed bacteria increasing the problems you see in these fishes. Having too many of the lesser preferred bacteria can also cause water quality problems.
The use of macro algae is very good, but you're not providing enough. Most hobbyists are properly told how to feed macro algae. Here is an important post to read regarding feeding fish macro algae: How to Feed Macro Algae to Marine Fishes
Regarding foods in general, read this long post: Fish Health Through Proper Nutrition.
The concept of feeding throughout the day is very good, only you need to up the kinds/quality of those feedings. In addition begin to use vitamin and fat supplements (indicated in that above post).
Hope the above helps. Part of the 'cure' is the fish fending off the infection with its own resources (energy).
Things go wrong when nutrition is low and/or water quality is low and/or there is disease.
The fish exhibit, based upon photos a bacterial infection and a low nutritional diet (in my opinion).
You tried one antibiotic and it didn't work. Now you try the other. Most bacterial infections are Gram Negative (over 75%) so it makes sense to try that one first, especially since it doesn't affect the biological filter.
Had the fish had an expert vet with it, the vet would have identified the bacteria and chosen the correct antibiotic suitable for that specific bacteria.
I would suggest you alter your feeding. Pellets and flakes are the lowest quality of marine fish foods, adding pollutants to the water that fish don't and can't digest. Fish can't digest wheat or land products which are often found in these foods. They pass through and become wastes. Those 'wastes' just feed bacteria increasing the problems you see in these fishes. Having too many of the lesser preferred bacteria can also cause water quality problems.
The use of macro algae is very good, but you're not providing enough. Most hobbyists are properly told how to feed macro algae.
Here is an important post to read regarding feeding fish macro algae: How to Feed Macro Algae to Marine FishesRegarding foods in general, read this long post: Fish Health Through Proper Nutrition.
The concept of feeding throughout the day is very good, only you need to up the kinds/quality of those feedings. In addition begin to use vitamin and fat supplements (indicated in that above post).
Hope the above helps. Part of the 'cure' is the fish fending off the infection with its own resources (energy).
robojet
Active member
I'm on my 4th treatment of Furan-2 (directions are for 4 doses). This is the results so far:
1) Neon Goby - fins still look tattered
2) Basslet - blotchy areas appear unchanged. fin appears all better
3) Tang - blotchy areas appear unchanged; fins still a bit tattered
I think I'll wait a couple of days to see if there's any further changes, but I'm not sure what my next move is. Suggestions?
1) Neon Goby - fins still look tattered
2) Basslet - blotchy areas appear unchanged. fin appears all better
3) Tang - blotchy areas appear unchanged; fins still a bit tattered
I think I'll wait a couple of days to see if there's any further changes, but I'm not sure what my next move is. Suggestions?
robojet
Active member
Oh... and thanks lee for all of your help. I'm doing the best I can with feeding. Not sure how to avoid flake or pellets when I'm using a feeder. I work all day, so I'm trying to figure out what I can do to make an improvement in this area.
cpd7767
Member
did she live
robojet
Active member
yes, female clown is looking well. Just trying to deal with the other fish and there ailments.
robojet
Active member
Still looking for some suggestions with the following problems:
1) Neon Goby - fins still look tattered
2) Basslet - blotchy areas appear unchanged. fin appears all better
3) Tang - blotchy areas appear unchanged; fins still a bit tattered, but appear to have improved
Note: see last photos for blotchiness
(Reminder of treatments since this all started: Cupramine, Maracyn-Two, StressGuard, Furan-2)
Thanks!
1) Neon Goby - fins still look tattered
2) Basslet - blotchy areas appear unchanged. fin appears all better
3) Tang - blotchy areas appear unchanged; fins still a bit tattered, but appear to have improved
Note: see last photos for blotchiness
(Reminder of treatments since this all started: Cupramine, Maracyn-Two, StressGuard, Furan-2)
Thanks!
jag3534
Well-known member
Did you try the nutritional changes? It sounded like that was key for fixing the tattered fins.
robojet
Active member
good point. I have started mixing up the types of seaweed for the tang. I'm feeding twice in the evening a thawed cube of either spinulara brine or mysis shrimp, while alternating the use of vita-chem and selcon. they are still getting flake throughout the day with a feeder.
For now, that's the best I can do.
For now, that's the best I can do.
jag3534
Well-known member
Are you able to get some formula one or two? Or something with add'l creatures in it? I've read that brine has almost no nutritional value and is like candy for our fish, and that mysis isn't even a saltwater animal. Maybe a mixed food with some squid, clams, etc? And I'm assuming you always have seaweed in for the kole to graze on, right?
robojet
Active member
true on the brine and mysis, but I'm using the spinulara brine, and the mysis maybe mysid, I have not been able to confirm at this time. I also have Rod's food that I will probably start using more since it has a greater variety. The tang has plenty of seaweed.
I've mostly used Prime Reef for the flake (seems to be the favorite of the fish), but also have Spectrum that I use occassionally (not the favorite of the fish)
I've mostly used Prime Reef for the flake (seems to be the favorite of the fish), but also have Spectrum that I use occassionally (not the favorite of the fish)
