Major Disease Problem Among Hammers/Frogspawn

[JennKerry]

I really need some expert advice on this matter. For the last three weeks or so I have had heads dying off my frogspawns and hammers. More so the Hammers. It started where it was just a head here and head there every other day or so. Then I noticed it became an epidemic in which multiple heads were dying daily. Even my 10" shelf hammer to a dive to this crap and I have no idea what to do. Ok, here is the run down on what I've seen and what I've done:

It moves very fast, all in one day any random head looks fine, then closes up and starts to slime. Not much at first, mostly from the base. Then while its closed up, you can start to see the mouth open wide then literally melt the rest of the way off the skeleton. A lot of brown starts to be spewed off, but I think thats just it algae coloration. This will happen within a few hours.

What I've done? Everything from Iodine Dips, QT, remove sick areas and throw away before getting bad, and I cant seem to get this to stop at all. I went 2 1/2 days without seeing the disease, then yesterday, BAMM, I had to remove 4 more heads of hammer, and today I had to remove my shelf hammer. THAT WAS TERRIBLE!!! I hated that!
Since this has happened, it seems to stay close to the hammers, the frogspawns seem to have been spared.

BUT...why arent the dips working? No matter how early I catch this problem. Nothing works and I cant stop it! If this dips dont work, could it be a parasite problem? Or is it something that the dip wont effect?

Someone PLEASE HELP!! I have lost over $1000 worth of coral and its gotta stop! What do I do?????

 

[Holygral]

Sorry about your problems, their are others who should be able to head you in the right direction, just wanted to bump your plea to keep it on the front page

 

[LakeEd]

JennKerry,

Sorry to hear about your loses. Unfortunately, there won't be a lot of information we can give you without hearing more about how your setup is.

What size tank, how old is your tank, water movement, lighting, tank chemical test results (ph, SG, temp, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, Calcium, Alkalinity, Iodine... any other tests you run), Tank inhabitants (fish & corals), new additions...

As you can see, the more you are able to tell us about your system, the better help people here will be for you.

I personally haven't heard of any specific parasite that would cause this problem, but it is always a possibility???

 

[JennKerry]

Ok, here is the run down of what I have:

Its a 125 reef that has been set up for just over 2 years, it was actually an upgrade from a 55, if you count that, the entire system is over 3 yrs old. We have about 40lbs of live sand, 200 lbs of live rock.

Fish: 1 Lrg Powder Blue Tang, 1 Med Yellow Tang, 1 Lrg Foxface, 1 Bi-Color Blackmouth Chromis, 1 Azura Damsel, 1 Blue Cheek Sleeper Goby, 1 Med Clarkki Clown. We havent added any new fish in about a year.

Anemonies: 1 Lrg Green Long Tenticle, been in there for a year and one month, picked a spot and stayed. Were lucky it doesnt roam.

Clams: 1 med/lrg Gold Maxima, 1 small Electric Blue Maxima, no probs with them.

Corals: Many different hammers, many frogspawns, fox, galaxia (small piece isolated), some SPS, shrooms, torch, and favia brains. Last coral added over 3 months ago

Inverts: 1 Tux Urchin, snails, hermits, cleaner shrimp, fire shrimp, POSSSIBLY a purple lobster (havent seen him in a few weeks), serp star

Tank Parms: I gotta say since we started back 3 yrs ago, we took our time and did everything right so we didnt waste money and kill innocent animals. We keep the salinity at 1.026 ALWAYS, no fluctuation with that or anything else, Nitrates are 20 or below, 79 degrees, no ammonia/nitrates. Calcium is at 400, we dose with Oceans Blend 2 part mix Cal/Alk that has other nutritional additives as well. Water changes were once a month, now Im up to once a week, and that is about 30 gallons. We have a 5 stage RO/DI unit. We use instant ocean but are switching over to reef crystals.

Lights: Just upgraded from 6x96 PCs to 3x250MH with 4x96 PCS. So the lighting almost doubled...BUT the problem existed before the lighting upgrade.

Water Movement: Sumpless, We run 2 Aqua Clear 500's (aka 110) filiters with a layer of foam and carbon, 3 Aqua Clear 402 Powerheads, an Aqua C Remora Hang on Tank Skimmer with a Mag 5 Pump.

This is our first problem in the tank, I know its not water movement or quality. Im just really offset on why, how and most importantly...WHY?! Kerry leaves it to me to figure this out, so Im doing my best here guys. These animals are my #1 Priority!!

 

[LakeEd]

JennKerry,

With my limited knowledge, I only see 2 things that might be problems.

"Nitrates are 20 or below"
"Just upgraded from 6X96 PC's to 3X250MH"

I know you said you don't feel it is the lighting, because you had part of this problem before your upgrade... but I'm wondering if there was any acclimation shock with your new upgrade.

As for the Nitrates, I know some animals are more sensitive than others to a buildup in Nitrates, and over time it takes a toll on them.

One thing I didn't ask you about before, was what were you feeding your Froggies & Hammers??? They do get a good source of their dietary needs from light, but they also have mouths that need to be feed as well.

Hopefully there is enough information here now, so when Anthony has the oppertunity to stop by here, he can help you figure out what is happening.

Keep us posted!!!

 

[aquarookie]

Hmmm... you also said you are switching from IO to reef crystals... Did the problem start before the switch or after? Just curious... consider it a bump, if nothing else

 

[coil1002]

I second on the reef crystals. I had a hell of a time when I switched salts on my 55 gal some years back. Lost a few lps. Could also explain why water changes are not helping

Just a thought

 

[returnofsid]

Are you sure that your Tangs aren't nipping at your corals? I've heard that they sometimes do. I would think Nitrates of 20 is quite a bit high. The sponges in your AquaClear filters are probably contributing to your nitrate problem. Another thing I've read is that Frogspawn are great indicators of water quality. It could be a nitrate problem. Since the problem was going on before your light switch, I'd agree with you that it's not a light based problem.

You mention that you don't think your problem is flow. I think it could be. Your AC 402s are each putting out a maximum of 270 GPH. Your AC filters each are supposed to deliver 500 GPH but with sponges in there, I bet it's quite restricted. From what I understand, you can't really count the flow from your protein skimmer...although I'm not sure of the reasoning behind that...just something I've read over and over again. So...without the skimmer, you're pushing somewhere between 1550 and 2310 GPH...with 2310 being the maximum if the AC 110s are putting out their maximum 500 GPH. In a 125....let me pull up my calculator....oh wait...forget everything I just said...lol. You're running somewhere between a 12 and 18X turnover rate. You're right, I don't think it's flow related...lol. I'd look more into your nitrates, or the possibility of a pest in the tank that you haven't discovered yet. Have you looked around the tank late at night with a flashlight? Try using a red lens over the flashlight. Reef pests really don't see red so aren't frightened into hiding from it. Might end up finding some huge, scary looking worm in there wrapped around some of your corals at night!! Uggghh, if so, DON'T post pics!!! I've seen enough and if I ever find something that large in my tank, I'm going back to strictly freshwater.

Sorry I wasn't much help. I wasted a lot of typing space to say a lot of nothing. Hope you get it figured out soon!!

 

[JennKerry]

Well, we JUST started with the reef crystals, meaning that today is the first time that we are mixing the new salt together with old salt during the water change. I know I SHOULDA said that we ARE changing over, not that we had already. But we are doing that over the coarse of...jeez, I would say a few months before the transition is complete.

(lighting) Tell me about it, I thought it was the lighting BUT, here is the kicker, Im finding heads that are all over the place that are dying. Saying that within a colony, I JUST found this morning a head that took a dive last night that sits 3 inches from the bottom. AND its back to attacking the frogspawn!!! Just cut another two heads this morning. But we know to acclimate the new lights up, we started at 1/2 hr a day, then moved it up 15 min every week. At this point we are about an hour with the lights.

As for feeding the corals, I tried a few years back when I was aquaculturing Goniopora. I was very successful in doing so and attepted to feed the other LPS in the process. They just slimed the food right off. BUT I'll tell you this, I may try doing that now just to see if I can get there resistance up! Anything to help right!

For the longest time, I ran no sponge in one filter, and a sponge that was cut to 1/4 inch thick in the other and ran them both with carbon. Just the past two weeks, I up-ed the sponges with new ones in both filters and are rinsing them every 4 days to prevent any more nitrates from accumulating.

Now, the last time I tested my Nitrates was in November at the LFS where I worked and they were zero. Im on my way out today to get a fresh test kit cause I found mine is too old. Im assuming my Nitrates are under 20 because Im up on the water changes and havent added anything new to cause a problem. If anything, the clams should help with that problem. I'll post the results when I get home.

Im leaning towards some invisible object to the naked eye. In the last two weeks I spent a lot of time observing the tank and fish, so its not the fish. The thing is, I can actually watch the process happen right in front of me. Whatever it is, dips dont help. Its almost like a coral E-Boli disease, they get the eat-um-ups!!
My friend and I have spent hours on the phone going through every possible avenue of prevention and cause. This has stumped everyone. Well, onto the water change!!! I hope I can stop this before it gets any worse

 

[JennKerry]

Ok guys, Nitrates are a 5. So thats not the problem

 

[JennKerry]

Ok, I give up. Im giving up. I cant keep pacing in front of the tank watching for heads to die (which they keep doing). I spend more time fragging hammers then living my own life.
Im just going to let it run its coarse cause no one can pin point what it is and what to do. All I know is what I have done so far hasnt worked and there isnt anything else I can do. Ive excercised all my options and still end up with death after death.
In the end, Im losing about $3000 in coral for something that Im helpless in. I guess it happens to everyone sometime. Whatever happens, happens

 

[coon]

very very sorry for your loss.
i wish i could help but i cannot...

 

[coil1002]

Stray voltage ?