Making Reef Rocks..

Reef Aquarium & Tank Building Forum

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I just ordered magnets to try and make some mag rocks for the back of my tank. I have half a bag of carib sea that I will use for sand... and for the salt, just use aquarium salt or rock?
 
I know this isn't possible for landlocked people but being from the puget sound area I would just submerge them in the sound somewhere (tie them to a fishing pier or something) for a few months, then come back and get them. Voila - cured liverock, cost for salt, heaters, waterchanges etc. = 0
 
Well if your doing saltwater changes you do it til the ph is normal 8.2-8.3 but why waste all that salt your doing water changes everyday to every other day suggested time is 90 days yes you have to be patient very very patient. if you add before that you will kill things in your tank ..

Cure in freshwater for a month. Change water regularly (every day or two, or put an airstone in the container). After that, if you put the concrete into saltwater you will notice hardly any change in pH, so I would put them directly in the tank.
 
I know this isn't possible for landlocked people but being from the puget sound area I would just submerge them in the sound somewhere (tie them to a fishing pier or something) for a few months, then come back and get them. Voila - cured liverock, cost for salt, heaters, waterchanges etc. = 0

Great, but I would check with local DLNR on laws for the area.
 
I'm making rock as well. We have a shop with a large, deep sink. As I make batches of rock I put them in the sink to cure. I just pull the drain and put clean fresh water back in. I'm not using a powerhead or airstone and since I have such a large tank I'm just making batches and setting them out to cure. It will be a month or two before we get the thing going and I'll test for PH then. In the meantime I change the water once or twice a day. I'm using 1 part type III portland cement with 4 parts crushed oyster shells.
 
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In order to submerge a little concrete and then pull it back out? Not trying to be flippant here but what issue could anyone possibly have with that?

You would be surprlsed at what laws people come up with to protect their shoreline. We are not always dealing with logical people all of the time. ie: Washington State: Spotted owl: in order to protect this bird they stopped logging to an entire forest area.
 
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I have seen laws on local are rock collecting. While in Guam, rock and sand could be collected greater than 3 nautical miles from shore. If a rock or ceramic tile was placed in the water, you could collect it as long as it was not in a protected area. If it was outside the protected area you could collect it as long as it had no visible corals on it. Here in the PS I am not sure on the laws governing collecting. I know there are rules.. but not sure on them.
 
Not getting everyone paranoid but, check with your local "fish and games" department or DLNR...Dept of land & natural Resources. They should have a booklet or something. Better to be safe then get a ridiculous fine.
 
OK... so I did some calling, talking, calling, talking, getting directions and other phone numbers.

WA DNR "Mike" in the aquatics dept was not aware of any laws or regulations (WAC, RCW) that prevent a person from putting anything into the ocean to later take it out. He refered me to the WDFW-region 6 for me.... I was directed to Margie who also was not aware of any rules that would prevent that.

Margie said that she would ask around the people she works with to see if they know of any rules... With that she also sent me to the following so that I could read and figure it out for myself. I have read the WAC and have not found any restrictions... unless we are going to remove alot of plants or sediment... I don't think that we are..

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/WAC/default.aspx?cite=220-110


What needs to be read is the WAC 220-110 if that helps at all. I think making the rock and soaking it in the ocean is a great Idea.
 
Sounds like it's good to go. Great that your state laws allow it.
T.
PS: good follow up. You're a great asset to the reef community....
 
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It almost sounds too good to be true...

Thank thincat.


There are also no real restrictions on removing rocks, coral or creatures unless they have a lisence associated with them.
 
Hey all I got bored and decided to help with research. I am working on my legal degree so this stuff if fun for me.

WAC 173-27-040 Developments exempt from substantial development permit requirement. (1) Application and interpretation of exemptions.

(a) Exemptions shall be construed narrowly. Only those developments that meet the precise terms of one or more of the listed exemptions may be granted exemption from the substantial development permit process.

(b) An exemption from the substantial development permit process is not an exemption from compliance with the act or the local master program, nor from any other regulatory requirements. To be authorized, all uses and developments must be consistent with the policies and provisions of the applicable master program and the Shoreline Management Act. A development or use that is listed as a conditional use pursuant to the local master program or is an unlisted use, must obtain a conditional use permit even though the development or use does not require a substantial development permit. When a development or use is proposed that does not comply with the bulk, dimensional and performance standards of the master program, such development or use can only be authorized by approval of a variance.

(c) The burden of proof that a development or use is exempt from the permit process is on the applicant.

(d) If any part of a proposed development is not eligible for exemption, then a substantial development permit is required for the entire proposed development project.

(e) Local government may attach conditions to the approval of exempted developments and/or uses as necessary to assure consistency of the project with the act and the local master program.

(2) The following developments shall not require substantial development permits:

(a) Any development of which the total cost or fair market value, whichever is higher, does not exceed five thousand dollars, if such development does not materially interfere with the normal public use of the water or shorelines of the state. The dollar threshold established in this subsection must be adjusted for inflation by the office of financial management every five years, beginning July 1, 2007, based upon changes in the consumer price index during that time period. "Consumer price index" means, for any calendar year, that year's annual average consumer price index, Seattle, Washington area, for urban wage earners and clerical workers, all items, compiled by the Bureau of Labor and Statistics, United States Department of Labor. The office of financial management must calculate the new dollar threshold and transmit it to the office of the code reviser for publication in the Washington State Register at least one month before the new dollar threshold is to take effect. For purposes of determining whether or not a permit is required, the total cost or fair market value shall be based on the value of development that is occurring on shorelines of the state as defined in RCW 90.58.030 (2)(c). The total cost or fair market value of the development shall include the fair market value of any donated, contributed or found labor, equipment or materials;

(b) Normal maintenance or repair of existing structures or developments, including damage by accident, fire or elements. "Normal maintenance" includes those usual acts to prevent a decline, lapse, or cessation from a lawfully established condition. "Normal repair" means to restore a development to a state comparable to its original condition, including but not limited to its size, shape, configuration, location and external appearance, within a reasonable period after decay or partial destruction, except where repair causes substantial adverse effects to shoreline resource or environment. Replacement of a structure or development may be authorized as repair where such replacement is the common method of repair for the type of structure or development and the replacement structure or development is comparable to the original structure or development including but not limited to its size, shape, configuration, location and external appearance and the replacement does not cause substantial adverse effects to shoreline resources or environment;

(c) Construction of the normal protective bulkhead common to single-family residences. A "normal protective" bulkhead includes those structural and nonstructural developments installed at or near, and parallel to, the ordinary high water mark for the sole purpose of protecting an existing single-family residence and appurtenant structures from loss or damage by erosion. A normal protective bulkhead is not exempt if constructed for the purpose of creating dry land. When a vertical or near vertical wall is being constructed or reconstructed, not more than one cubic yard of fill per one foot of wall may be used as backfill. When an existing bulkhead is being repaired by construction of a vertical wall fronting the existing wall, it shall be constructed no further waterward of the existing bulkhead than is necessary for construction of new footings. When a bulkhead has deteriorated such that an ordinary high water mark has been established by the presence and action of water landward of the bulkhead then the replacement bulkhead must be located at or near the actual ordinary high water mark. Beach nourishment and bioengineered erosion control projects may be considered a normal protective bulkhead when any structural elements are consistent with the above requirements and when the project has been approved by the department of fish and wildlife.

(d) Emergency construction necessary to protect property from damage by the elements. An "emergency" is an unanticipated and imminent threat to public health, safety, or the environment which requires immediate action within a time too short to allow full compliance with this chapter. Emergency construction does not include development of new permanent protective structures where none previously existed. Where new protective structures are deemed by the administrator to be the appropriate means to address the emergency situation, upon abatement of the emergency situation the new structure shall be removed or any permit which would have been required, absent an emergency, pursuant to chapter 90.58 RCW, these regulations, or the local master program, obtained. All emergency construction shall be consistent with the policies of chapter 90.58 RCW and the local master program. As a general matter, flooding or other seasonal events that can be anticipated and may occur but that are not imminent are not an emergency;

(e) Construction and practices normal or necessary for farming, irrigation, and ranching activities, including agricultural service roads and utilities on shorelands, construction of a barn or similar agricultural structure, and the construction and maintenance of irrigation structures including but not limited to head gates, pumping facilities, and irrigation channels: Provided, That a feedlot of any size, all processing plants, other activities of a commercial nature, alteration of the contour of the shorelands by leveling or filling other than that which results from normal cultivation, shall not be considered normal or necessary farming or ranching activities. A feedlot shall be an enclosure or facility used or capable of being used for feeding livestock hay, grain, silage, or other livestock feed, but shall not include land for growing crops or vegetation for livestock feeding and/or grazing, nor shall it include normal livestock wintering operations;

(f) Construction or modification of navigational aids such as channel markers and anchor buoys;

(g) Construction on shorelands by an owner, lessee or contract purchaser of a single-family residence for their own use or for the use of their family, which residence does not exceed a height of thirty-five feet above average grade level and which meets all requirements of the state agency or local government having jurisdiction thereof, other than requirements imposed pursuant to chapter 90.58 RCW. "Single-family residence" means a detached dwelling designed for and occupied by one family including those structures and developments within a contiguous ownership which are a normal appurtenance. An "appurtenance" is necessarily connected to the use and enjoyment of a single-family residence and is located landward of the ordinary high water mark and the perimeter of a wetland. On a statewide basis, normal appurtenances include a garage; deck; driveway; utilities; fences; installation of a septic tank and drainfield and grading which does not exceed two hundred fifty cubic yards and which does not involve placement of fill in any wetland or waterward of the ordinary high water mark. Local circumstances may dictate additional interpretations of normal appurtenances which shall be set forth and regulated within the applicable master program. Construction authorized under this exemption shall be located landward of the ordinary high water mark;

(h) Construction of a dock, including a community dock, designed for pleasure craft only, for the private noncommercial use of the owner, lessee, or contract purchaser of single-family and multiple-family residences. A dock is a landing and moorage facility for watercraft and does not include recreational decks, storage facilities or other appurtenances. This exception applies if either:

(i) In salt waters, the fair market value of the dock does not exceed two thousand five hundred dollars; or

(ii) In fresh waters the fair market value of the dock does not exceed ten thousand dollars, but if subsequent construction having a fair market value exceeding two thousand five hundred dollars occurs within five years of completion of the prior construction, the subsequent construction shall be considered a substantial development for the purpose of this chapter.

For purposes of this section salt water shall include the tidally influenced marine and estuarine water areas of the state including the Pacific Ocean, Strait of Juan de Fuca, Strait of Georgia and Puget Sound and all bays and inlets associated with any of the above;

(i) Operation, maintenance, or construction of canals, waterways, drains, reservoirs, or other facilities that now exist or are hereafter created or developed as a part of an irrigation system for the primary purpose of making use of system waters, including return flow and artificially stored ground water from the irrigation of lands;

(j) The marking of property lines or corners on state-owned lands, when such marking does not significantly interfere with normal public use of the surface of the water;

(k) Operation and maintenance of any system of dikes, ditches, drains, or other facilities existing on September 8, 1975, which were created, developed or utilized primarily as a part of an agricultural drainage or diking system;

(l) Any project with a certification from the governor pursuant to chapter 80.50 RCW;

(m) Site exploration and investigation activities that are prerequisite to preparation of an application for development authorization under this chapter, if:

(i) The activity does not interfere with the normal public use of the surface waters;

(ii) The activity will have no significant adverse impact on the environment including but not limited to fish, wildlife, fish or wildlife habitat, water quality, and aesthetic values;

(iii) The activity does not involve the installation of any structure, and upon completion of the activity the vegetation and land configuration of the site are restored to conditions existing before the activity;

(iv) A private entity seeking development authorization under this section first posts a performance bond or provides other evidence of financial responsibility to the local jurisdiction to ensure that the site is restored to preexisting conditions; and

(v) The activity is not subject to the permit requirements of RCW 90.58.550;

(n) The process of removing or controlling aquatic noxious weeds, as defined in RCW 17.26.020, through the use of an herbicide or other treatment methods applicable to weed control that are recommended by a final environmental impact statement published by the department of agriculture or the department of ecology jointly with other state agencies under chapter 43.21C RCW;

(o) Watershed restoration projects as defined herein. Local government shall review the projects for consistency with the shoreline master program in an expeditious manner and shall issue its decision along with any conditions within forty-five days of receiving all materials necessary to review the request for exemption from the applicant. No fee may be charged for accepting and processing requests for exemption for watershed restoration projects as used in this section.

(i) "Watershed restoration project" means a public or private project authorized by the sponsor of a watershed restoration plan that implements the plan or a part of the plan and consists of one or more of the following activities:

(A) A project that involves less than ten miles of streamreach, in which less than twenty-five cubic yards of sand, gravel, or soil is removed, imported, disturbed or discharged, and in which no existing vegetation is removed except as minimally necessary to facilitate additional plantings;

(B) A project for the restoration of an eroded or unstable stream bank that employs the principles of bioengineering, including limited use of rock as a stabilization only at the toe of the bank, and with primary emphasis on using native vegetation to control the erosive forces of flowing water; or

(C) A project primarily designed to improve fish and wildlife habitat, remove or reduce impediments to migration of fish, or enhance the fishery resource available for use by all of the citizens of the state, provided that any structure, other than a bridge or culvert or instream habitat enhancement structure associated with the project, is less than two hundred square feet in floor area and is located above the ordinary high water mark of the stream.

(ii) "Watershed restoration plan" means a plan, developed or sponsored by the department of fish and wildlife, the department of ecology, the department of natural resources, the department of transportation, a federally recognized Indian tribe acting within and pursuant to its authority, a city, a county, or a conservation district that provides a general program and implementation measures or actions for the preservation, restoration, re-creation, or enhancement of the natural resources, character, and ecology of a stream, stream segment, drainage area, or watershed for which agency and public review has been conducted pursuant to chapter 43.21C RCW, the State Environmental Policy Act;

(p) A public or private project that is designed to improve fish or wildlife habitat or fish passage, when all of the following apply:

(i) The project has been approved in writing by the department of fish and wildlife;

(ii) The project has received hydraulic project approval by the department of fish and wildlife pursuant to chapter 77.55 RCW; and

(iii) The local government has determined that the project is substantially consistent with the local shoreline master program. The local government shall make such determination in a timely manner and provide it by letter to the project proponent.

Fish habitat enhancement projects that conform to the provisions of RCW 77.55.181 are determined to be consistent with local shoreline master programs, as follows:

(A) In order to receive the permit review and approval process created in this section, a fish habitat enhancement project must meet the criteria under (p)(iii)(A)(I) and (II) of this subsection:

(I) A fish habitat enhancement project must be a project to accomplish one or more of the following tasks:

• Elimination of human-made fish passage barriers, including culvert repair and replacement;

• Restoration of an eroded or unstable streambank employing the principle of bioengineering, including limited use of rock as a stabilization only at the toe of the bank, and with primary emphasis on using native vegetation to control the erosive forces of flowing water; or

• Placement of woody debris or other instream structures that benefit naturally reproducing fish stocks.

The department of fish and wildlife shall develop size or scale threshold tests to determine if projects accomplishing any of these tasks should be evaluated under the process created in this section or under other project review and approval processes. A project proposal shall not be reviewed under the process created in this section if the department determines that the scale of the project raises concerns regarding public health and safety; and

(II) A fish habitat enhancement project must be approved in one of the following ways:

• By the department of fish and wildlife pursuant to chapter 77.95 or 77.100 RCW;

• By the sponsor of a watershed restoration plan as provided in chapter 89.08 RCW;

• By the department as a department of fish and wildlife-sponsored fish habitat enhancement or restoration project;

• Through the review and approval process for the jobs for the environment program;

• Through the review and approval process for conservation district-sponsored projects, where the project complies with design standards established by the conservation commission through interagency agreement with the United States Fish and Wildlife Service and the natural resource conservation service;

• Through a formal grant program established by the legislature or the department of fish and wildlife for fish habitat enhancement or restoration; and

• Through other formal review and approval processes established by the legislature.

(B) Fish habitat enhancement projects meeting the criteria of (p)(iii)(A) of this subsection are expected to result in beneficial impacts to the environment. Decisions pertaining to fish habitat enhancement projects meeting the criteria of (p)(iii)(A) of this subsection and being reviewed and approved according to the provisions of this section are not subject to the requirements of RCW 43.21C.030 (2)(c).

(C)(I) A hydraulic project approval permit is required for projects that meet the criteria of (p)(iii)(A) of this subsection and are being reviewed and approved under this section. An applicant shall use a joint aquatic resource permit application form developed by the office of regulatory assistance to apply for approval under this chapter. On the same day, the applicant shall provide copies of the completed application form to the department of fish and wildlife and to each appropriate local government. Local governments shall accept the application as notice of the proposed project. The department of fish and wildlife shall provide a fifteen-day comment period during which it will receive comments regarding environmental impacts. Within forty-five days, the department shall either issue a permit, with or without conditions, deny approval, or make a determination that the review and approval process created by this section is not appropriate for the proposed project. The department shall base this determination on identification during the comment period of adverse impacts that cannot be mitigated by the conditioning of a permit. If the department determines that the review and approval process created by this section is not appropriate for the proposed project, the department shall notify the applicant and the appropriate local governments of its determination. The applicant may reapply for approval of the project under other review and approval processes.

(II) Any person aggrieved by the approval, denial, conditioning, or modification of a permit under this section may formally appeal the decision to the hydraulic appeals board pursuant to the provisions of this chapter.

(D) No local government may require permits or charge fees for fish habitat enhancement projects that meet the criteria of (p)(iii)(A) of this subsection and that are reviewed and approved according to the provisions of this section.


Here is the rule
 
Here is the statute on point technically is falls under the category of littering.

RCW 70.93.060
Littering prohibited -- Penalties -- Litter cleanup restitution payment.

(1) It is a violation of this section to abandon a junk vehicle upon any property. In addition, no person shall throw, drop, deposit, discard, or otherwise dispose of litter upon any public property in the state or upon private property in this state not owned by him or her or in the waters of this state whether from a vehicle or otherwise including but not limited to any public highway, public park, beach, campground, forest land, recreational area, trailer park, highway, road, street, or alley except:

(a) When the property is designated by the state or its agencies or political subdivisions for the disposal of garbage and refuse, and the person is authorized to use such property for that purpose;

(b) Into a litter receptacle in a manner that will prevent litter from being carried away or deposited by the elements upon any part of the private or public property or waters.

(2)(a) Except as provided in subsection (4) of this section, it is a class 3 civil infraction as provided in RCW 7.80.120 for a person to litter in an amount less than or equal to one cubic foot.

(b) It is a misdemeanor for a person to litter in an amount greater than one cubic foot but less than one cubic yard. The person shall also pay a litter cleanup restitution payment equal to twice the actual cost of cleanup, or fifty dollars per cubic foot of litter, whichever is greater. The court shall distribute one-half of the restitution payment to the landowner and one-half of the restitution payment to the law enforcement agency investigating the incident. The court may, in addition to or in lieu of part or all of the cleanup restitution payment, order the person to pick up and remove litter from the property, with prior permission of the legal owner or, in the case of public property, of the agency managing the property. The court may suspend or modify the litter cleanup restitution payment for a first-time offender under this section, if the person cleans up and properly disposes of the litter.

(c) It is a gross misdemeanor for a person to litter in an amount of one cubic yard or more. The person shall also pay a litter cleanup restitution payment equal to twice the actual cost of cleanup, or one hundred dollars per cubic foot of litter, whichever is greater. The court shall distribute one-half of the restitution payment to the landowner and one-half of the restitution payment to the law enforcement agency investigating the incident. The court may, in addition to or in lieu of part or all of the cleanup restitution payment, order the person to pick up and remove litter from the property, with prior permission of the legal owner or, in the case of public property, of the agency managing the property. The court may suspend or modify the litter cleanup restitution payment for a first-time offender under this section, if the person cleans up and properly disposes of the litter.

(d) If a junk vehicle is abandoned in violation of this section, RCW 46.55.230 governs the vehicle's removal, disposal, and sale, and the penalties that may be imposed against the person who abandoned the vehicle.

(3) If the violation occurs in a state park, the court shall, in addition to any other penalties assessed, order the person to perform twenty-four hours of community restitution in the state park where the violation occurred if the state park has stated an intent to participate as provided in RCW 79A.05.050.
 
But here is the really tricky part here is the definition of litter. Ultimately, it is a question of fact.

The definitions in this section apply throughout this chapter unless the context clearly requires otherwise.


(1) "Conveyance" means a boat, airplane, or vehicle.


(2) "Department" means the department of ecology.


(3) "Director" means the director of the department of ecology.


(4) "Disposable package or container" means all packages or containers defined as such by rules adopted by the department of ecology.


(5) "Junk vehicle" has the same meaning as defined in RCW 46.55.010.


(6) "Litter" means all waste material including but not limited to disposable packages or containers thrown or deposited as herein prohibited and solid waste that is illegally dumped, but not including the wastes of the primary processes of mining, logging, sawmilling, farming, or manufacturing. "Litter" includes the material described in subsection (11) of this section as "potentially dangerous litter."


(7) "Litter bag" means a bag, sack, or other container made of any material which is large enough to serve as a receptacle for litter inside the vehicle or watercraft of any person. It is not necessarily limited to the state approved litter bag but must be similar in size and capacity.


(8) "Litter receptacle" means those containers adopted by the department of ecology and which may be standardized as to size, shape, capacity, and color and which shall bear the state anti-litter symbol, as well as any other receptacles suitable for the depositing of litter.


(9) "Official gathering" means an event where authorization to hold the event is approved, recognized, or issued by a government, public body, or authority, including but not limited to fairs, musical concerts, athletic games, festivals, tournaments, or any other formal or ceremonial event, during which beverages are sold by a vendor or vendors in single-use aluminum, glass, or plastic bottles or cans.


(10) "Person" means any political subdivision, government agency, municipality, industry, public or private corporation, copartnership, association, firm, individual, or other entity whatsoever.


(11) "Potentially dangerous litter" means litter that is likely to injure a person or cause damage to a vehicle or other property. "Potentially dangerous litter" means:


(a) Cigarettes, cigars, or other tobacco products that are capable of starting a fire;


(b) Glass;


(c) A container or other product made predominantly or entirely of glass;


(d) A hypodermic needle or other medical instrument designed to cut or pierce;


(e) Raw human waste, including soiled baby diapers, regardless of whether or not the waste is in a container of any sort; and


(f) Nails or tacks.


(12) "Public place" means any area that is used or held out for use by the public whether owned or operated by public or private interests.


(13) "Recycling" means transforming or remanufacturing waste materials into a finished product for use other than landfill disposal or incineration.


(14) "Recycling center" means a central collection point for recyclable materials.


(15) "Sports facility" means an outdoor recreational sports facility, including but not limited to athletic fields and ballparks, at which beverages are sold by a vendor or vendors in single-use aluminum, glass, or plastic bottles or cans.


(16) "To litter" means a single or cumulative act of disposing of litter.


(17) "Vehicle" includes every device capable of being moved upon a public highway and in, upon, or by which any persons or property is or may be transported or drawn upon a public highway, excepting devices moved by human or animal power or used exclusively upon stationary rails or tracks.


(18) "Waste reduction" means reducing the amount or toxicity of waste generated or reusing materials.


(19) "Watercraft" means any boat, ship, vessel, barge, or other floating craft.
 
Ok last one. Still need to find out the Department of Ecology's definition of pollution. i.e. leeching PH into the water. Whew anyway you are not going to get in trouble for putting reef rocks into the water.

RCW 90.48.080
Discharge of polluting matter in waters prohibited.


It shall be unlawful for any person to throw, drain, run, or otherwise discharge into any of the waters of this state, or to cause, permit or suffer to be thrown, run, drained, allowed to seep or otherwise discharged into such waters any organic or inorganic matter that shall cause or tend to cause pollution of such waters according to the determination of the department, as provided for in this chapter.
 
All of that is for construction and litter... what we are doing is not litter or construction. But I am glad that we have come to the same conclusion... Still ok to put it into the ocean for curing. I did discuss with the WDFW about the leaching of calcium and lye into the water.

For the small amounts that we are going to put in (10-20 lbs) at a time, their big concern was not the chemical leaching but the possiblity that the concrete would not be completely done with it's heat production. Other than that They (DNR & WDFW) saw no problems with putting concrete into the local waters (saltwater) and then pulling it out later (1-2 months).
 
The heat production is almost completely done in the first 24 hours. Since you will make the concrete one day, allow it to set (typically 2-5 hours just to get the concrete into a solid state), and then put it in the water the next day, heat should not be an issue.
 
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