Mandarin Drogonet, and clown fish?

[as1720]

Well i have a 29 gallon tank with one med/large false clown fish. My tank has been up about 6 months now everything is going great!

I would like to get a mandarin would it be ok with the clown?

I plan on buying copepods and letting them be for about a month befor getting the mandarin. Although i already have a fair amount of copepods as the tank is now, i just want to be safe.

I have 2 peppermint shrimp and 1 cleaner shrimp besides the clown in the tank now, but i do plan on letting the peppermint shrimp go.


Any input would be nice.

 

[jgraeff]

yes it would be fine i have onne with a pair of clowns. also get some ulva as food for the pods. cheapest from reefcleaners.org

 

[returnofsid]

Unfortunately, I have to disagree. Typically, a 29, even with lots of quality live rock, just can't contain enough live rock to keep a sustainable population of copepods going. IMO, a Mandarin requires 70+ pounds of live rock AND a fuge. This will enable the pod population to be self sustaining.

 

[depitch]

I agree that the 29 Gal may be too small, but the time the tank has been running is important.

It takes 2-4 years to build up a large enough population of "pods" to feed a mandrin. You can supplement with products like "tigger-pods" but the best way is to wait and let a reef tank mature before adding a mandarin.

JMHO

Doug

 

[mcvicker]

I agree that a 29 is too small for a mandarin, unless you ultimately set up another tank to specifically breed copepods and dose your main tank.
But, I question the conventional wisdom on tank age and amount of rock. I have a 65 gallon with a ton of live rock and got a mandarin after about a year because they are so cool looking. It did great for quite awhile (~6 months I know not great, but bear with me). The tank was loaded with pods. I then tried keeping SPS. So, I added a refugium with cheato, upgraded my skimmer, and increased flow in my tank. The result was the SPS did well, but the mandarin slowly withered away. It was amazing after I made the changes how quickly the pod population changed. It was within a week or so I had a hard time finding pods in my tank anymore. I am sure my mandarin had a hard time too. First it's stomach sunk in and then one day it just stopped swimming around, very sad and I attempted to buy pods train on frozen or flake.
I guess what I am getting at is. You really have to look at your system and determine if it will support the mandarin. If you have a "clean" system I think you would need a huge tank 200+ gallons, whereas a dirty system may be smaller. You also have to look at what other fish will eat pods and compete with the mandarin. I think your pod population will stabilize fairly quickly. They have a relatively short lifespan and will react to any changes in your tank surprisingly fast. That being said you can probably set up a pod breeding tank to dose your tank pretty quickly and determine if you will be able to produce enough food to support a mandarin. I strongly urge you to set up the copepod breeding and let it stabilize prior to getting a mandarin. This will be the only way you are successful. I hope this helps...
-chris

 

[roscoe]

I have seen fat healthy mandarins in a tank that size but they did have a sump and fuge to grow the pods. IMO it can be done if you are able to supply it with pods and also if you can train them to eat frozen food. Everyone has their opinion here. It is up to YOU to supply the formentioned fish with it's natural food supply but it can be done. You know yourself best and you know what you are able to do for your animals you take into your care. I am sure everyone that is saying that you can't do this and that has done it themselves and am pretty sure they are not doing everything by the book themselves. I am an advocate for experimenting for yourself what works for other does NOT mean it will work for you. Just my 2 pennys worth.

 

[returnofsid]

I have a Mandarin in my 46, with about 75# or more of live rock and a CPR Aquafuge that's loaded with pods. I waited about 6 months to get the Mandarin. I don't agree that it takes year....but I'd recommend at least 6 months. I know your tank is old enough, it's just a matter of if it's got enough live rock. As was mentioned, you can purchase live copepods. Also keep in mind that all of your fish will eat the pods. Dosing a bottle of pods can be pretty useless if they're all eaten in a day or so. With a refugium, you can dose the pods into the fuge, at night. This will give them a chance to get established. You might find yourself buying pods on a very regular basis with a 29 gallon tank.

 

[delemi]

Question for all you naysayers Shouldn't our recommendation #1 be to QT the lil mandarin devil and train em to eat an easily attainable frozen or dry food?

Then the pods are only supplements to his diet soaked with yummy selcon and other goodies.....

 

[returnofsid]

That's actually a VERY GOOD IDEA!!! Though I don't know how many people are actually successful in getting their Mandarins to eat frozen or prepared foods. I do seem to be reading about more and more that are successful.

 

[jgraeff]

Yes sorry i didn't mention i have about 75lbs of live rock and a fuge for my 30g and my mandarin is doing awesome. He will eat mysis shrimp and very small pellets but he won't look for it you have to place in near or in front of him but he will def. eat it.

 

[as1720]

So if i added 2 viles of the pods to my tank now and waited a couple month befor i got the mandarin it still wouldnt survive?

I have a clown and a wellow watchman goby forgot to mention that guy also have a cleaner shrimp in the tank right now.

I really dont have time to put together a tank to breed pods and i dont want to get the fish and have it die.

 

[jgraeff]

If you have a refuge with chaeto or ulva and enough live rock then yes it should be ok. Especially if you get it to feed on mysis shrimp or pellets. Put they pretty easy to take care of you just have to put effort in to get them to eat. you have to basically put it right in front of it but is not that hard to do.

 

[as1720]

I just have a bak pak 2

Is there a link or something i could read on getting them to eat? I am home all day so i would considering hand feeding it if it that easy.

 

[returnofsid]

There's a very good link somewhere...lol. I can't find it right now. However, it involves having a QT tank and the Mandarin being in this tank as long as it takes to get it to eat provided foods. Post on Lee's Fish forum for advice. He'll know the best links and have the best advice.

 

[as1720]

Isnt that ware i did post? lol Sorry.

There's a very good link somewhere...lol. I can't find it right now. However, it involves having a QT tank and the Mandarin being in this tank as long as it takes to get it to eat provided foods. Post on Lee's Fish forum for advice. He'll know the best links and have the best advice.

 

[leebca]

The 29g, regardless of refugium, sump and total water volume is not large enough for anything more than a pair of Anemonefishes and then, only if the Anemonefishes are of the very small species.

The discussion about adding a Mandarin because of the lack of pods is irrelevant, since the system is currently full.

as1720 needs to understand that a pair of Anemonefishes are going to assume that entire tank their property and as they mature, they will drive away anything in their property.

The space fish need isn't just how much bioload they produce and how much bioload the system can handle, it is also what the fish needs for movement, nesting, territory, etc. The female FP reaches over 3" and that would be the near maximum for that tank, not to mention its smaller mate being there, too.

I refer as1720 to this post: Fish Stocking Limit – for FO and FOWLR

 

[jgraeff]

I would personally get a feeding stick or something because you don't want to put your hands in the water when not necessary. There was one guy who used a small glass bottle and lowered into the tank and the mandarin was the only fish that could get to it so he got it to eat that way and just pulled it out when it was done.

 

[as1720]

Well first off i dont have a pair of Clown i have 1 clown, 1 watchman goby and 1 cleaner shrimp. And if you read the rest of my posts you will see i am looking out for the best interest of the fish and just doing some research about the fish in general.

We may be setting up a 55 gal tank, but the 29 gal tank would have to be its home until the 55 was established enough to support it, so if anything it would only be with the clown and watchmen for a short time, then it would be alone in the 29 until the 55 was established with pods, but if the 29 can support it thats what i would like to do. I am willing to take the time to get it to eat prepared food in order to keep it in the 29 if the 29 can not support the pods.

I just thought it would be cool to have the mandarin and clown in the 29 gal tank that i am turning into a reef. But i would be completely happy with just the mandarin in the 29. I would like to get it to eat prepared food but would also like it to have copepods, But again if it is not possible i will not do it.

But if it can not survive even alone in the tank as i said befor i would not do it!

I am doing my research befor i do anything.

I appreciate you looking at the whole picture but the currant situation will be changing soon and i just figured i would ask.

 

[returnofsid]

I would suggest waiting on the Mandarin. I'm glad you're doing research before making a purchase!! That's great to see. Even with Mandarins that eat prepared food, it's been suggested that they don't usually survive very well without a very healthy pod population. They just HAVE to have the pods.

Would it be possible to wait until the 55 is well established, with a great pod population, and then get the Mandarin? Keep in mind that you'll also want to make sure you never add any fish that will out compete the Mandarin for it's necessary food source. A perfect example would be a 6 Lined Wrasse. While Wrasses can survive without pods, they'll quickly decimate the population and eat much more aggressively than the Mandarin.

While the 55 is maturing, you could be purchasing bottled pods and dumping them in it to build up the population. After 6 months or so, given the 55 is healthy, the pod population should be well enough established to support a Mandarin.

I know you'd really like to put one in a 29. IMO, even if you "train" one to eat provided foods, it's just not a good idea.

By the way, here's one of the articles I'd looked for earlier and couldn't find
http://melevsreef.com/mandarin_care.html and here's another http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-01/reefslides/index.php

 

[as1720]

I think i will just end up waiting. If i dont set up a 55 gal i guess i just wont ever have a mandarin.