Mandarin larvae

[jeffkeith_us]

Hi Everyone
I've done a little work over the past two weeks. Moved the Amphipods to a 32 gallon trash can. Rebuilt the ten gallon quarantine aquarium so that it now has the baby-safe system.
When I put one of the scrubber pads into this aquarium the amphipods would not get out of it, a few did. I thought "well this is different", so I let it stay in there overnight. They had all left the scrub pad by the morning.
The Copepod Aquarium (CA) didn't have as much marine infusoria per liter as I thought it should take to support Mandarin larvae. I will need to either start another CA (Copepod Aquarium) or start a larger CA. The best thing about this kind of aquarium is that wile you can't use the carbon filter because of the greenwater, you can use the baby-safe system in conjunction with the Bio-wheel.
For reason of fragility I fear the moving of Mandarin larvae from the capture basket (the jar in the photograph on the left is removed so you can see the capture basket) soon after they've hatched. If anyone has any input to offer about this please, feel free to do so.

The CA (Copepod Aquarium) is producing a lot of copepods, however. It may be just too soon to discern the production rate of a five gallons (19 liters) CA.

It's not a problem at this time as there are no Mandarin eggs yet and right now I am glad of it. I still need time to learn more about my food animal production rates and what are the correct technics.

 

[jeffkeith_us]

Today I was watching the Clownfish and the Mandarin #6. They watch each other eat. When I fed the Clown some frozen shrimp some went to the bottom and the Clown went after it. The Mandarin hovered close and watched the Clown pick the food off the bottom. I have never seen a Premnas biaculeatus peck food off the bottom before. Then the Mandarin started pecking/kissing in the same place. I couldn't tell if he was going after the dead shrimp or an Amphipod.
The two like each other and often caress. The Mandarin is a male, Clowns have no X or Y genes in their chromosomes. So calling a Clownfish male or female is like talking about chicken teeth, really. This one has been alone long enough to have ovarian development, however.
All P. biaculeatus like touching but this one will very very lightly nose the Mandarin in the side, without pushing. Just a nose caress. Also both will caress the other with their ventrals on oft occasion.
This clown was wild when I got it. I know that because I ordered it that way and because it didn't recognize any inert feed or frozen food. I had to teach it to eat inert feed using live brine shrimp nauplii and extra small feed pellets at the same time.

 

[Elmo18]

Hi Jeff. Keep up the awesome work and the great posts here.

This thread is encouraging me to try and branch out from just clownfish breeding.

Keep us updated on your progress. At the moment, I will experiment with bangaii cardinals, aside from the clownfish.

- Ilham

 

[jeffkeith_us]

Hi Ilhan
Thanks for the kind words. I designed another system in a modified small Marineland aquarium to grow Copepods, feeding them Green water, Tetrasilmis and Roto-rich. Just use a turkey baster like a transfer pipette to seed the Copepods in the target Mandarin's aquarium.This system needs redundancy, for if too many copepod nauplii are removed other infusoria will take over.
Which brings me to the place where I am now. Mandarin larva have very small yolk sacks and need to eat enriched zoo plankton and marine infusoria in the size range of about 30 to 40 microns very soon or the will starve in a few hours. Rotifers are the common food for larva but they are around 240 microns. The only other marine food being used is Brine shrimp nauplii, but they are even bigger. No one uses Harpacticoid Copepod nauplii like I am going to do (HVHY willing).
So I built the system to grow Copepods in Greenwater then the system for Amphipods. Copepod nauplii are the very best first food for the Mandarinfish or Clownfish larva. The Amphipods are for adult Mandarins.
*Note; I think, mandarinfish are the cure and control for flat worms.
First I filter out everything out of the Copepods green water above 53 microns and put that back, then filter again at 23 microns. But I can't tell what species of infusoria are in the collector sieve.
I am not working for a big company or anything, I am just doing this in my home. I don't have enough money to get the microscope I would like. I know I need a digital microscope with phase contrast and a dark field condenser. I built a computer that exceeds any microscope software requirements. The cost of such a microscope is just too high for me, however. This is the lowest price model I could find. So for now I don't have any way to identify, measure, or count either Copepod nauplii or other infusoria.
But, the good news is these fish need no longer be put to the most acutely painful death just because they are beautiful.
Thanks,
Jeff Keith

 

[Elmo18]

Hi Keith.

Another thing to try are .... oyster trochophores. Flash frozen, then are great. About ~40-50 microns in the ciliated swimming stage.

Just something to think about.....I will use those on raising yellow watchman gobies...when the time comes... :lol:

- Ilham

 

[jeffkeith_us]

Hi Ilham
Found some at Aquarium Concepts in Oklahoma City, and tried them on Brine shrimp. Don't have any larva right now.
Jeff

 

[ladygator]

copepod and sieve

Hi Jeff - Saw your post - wanted to comment that you will get mostly copepod naups at 53 microns, and ciliates and other infusoria at 23 microns. When you are ready to collect copepod copepodites and adults, move up to a 100 micron sieve. What kind of lighting are you using on the copepods?

Adelaide

 

[jeffkeith_us]

Hi Adelaide
Good hear from you. I am useing Coralife 50/50 (10,000K and Antinic 03 Blue).
Jeff

 

[jeffkeith_us]

The Mandarinfish in #6

Hi Everyone
At about 6:00 o'clock p.m. today, wile feeding everything from Parakeets to Copepods I could see the Mandarinfish in #6 eat frozen blood worms caught upon Caulerpa. I have been feeding the Clownfish brine shrimp (enriched with DT's Oyster eggs, home grown Green water and RotoRich) with a turkey baster and was using it then. The birds haven't caught on, however.
I think #6 has shown me the technique to use. The way in which to get a Mandarin to learn to go after non alive food is to let it see the Clownfish doing just that. By introducing one wild adolescent Clownfish and one wild adult Mandarinfish to a new aquarium at the same time they will teach each other.
I insinuate that the learning goes both ways. The Clownfish pecks food right off the substrate side-by-side with the Mandarinfish.
Jeff

 

[Dewey115]

Just wanted to make a few comments on my recent experiences with the amphipod bucket you mentioned earlier. In my zoo prop tank I started to use it as a seperate refugium of sorts. All of the LS I have collected goes in there along with alot of LR rubble. I saw just masses of amphipods in there and decided to test some of the methods for the bucket culture. I have found that different things will move to different scrub pads at different rates (which is pretty much what I would have expected). I had some scrub pads much like the ones you used and found they work pretty well... however it seems to take the amphipods a few days to really recolonize the pads. I dont mind waiting, except the tank they are in literally is crawling with pods, so the delay in them moving back in was a little unexpected. I found that the more corse filter pads work faster and I usually see more types of critters on them. They are off-white colored and many brands have some.

http://www.hagen.com/usa/aquatic/product.cfm?CAT=1&SUBCAT=114&PROD_ID=01002200020101

shows what I am talking about. This is hardly the only type available, but the kind I got was from an aquaclear filter. The holes in the foam are much larger and I think offer more areas for the pods and other critters to live and hide in. Also I notice that more of the pods tend to hang on when the foam is pulled out of the water. I think that this method is a great way to culture amphipods. I have alot of them at my disposal and I haven't really put any effort yet into culturing them, with more effort I think it should be pretty easy. This doesn't help much for raising the fry, but I think this goes a long way towards easy adult mandarin food. Any info on best enrichment for mandarins? Keep up all the great posts, this has been one of the best threads I have participated in in a while. Thanks

Rick

 

[jeffkeith_us]

Reply to Rick

Hi Rick
You are correct, they do like the more corse pads. I think they like the ability to move around inside the pad. Very much like what they look for in Live rock and what they build or dig-out down inside sand substratum. Try putting fish food in the pad for the Amphipods before you sink it in the Reef sanctuary.
But aquarium #4 has a peace of egg-grate for substrata. So all the Mandarin in it is eating are Copepods and Isopods. That juvenile Mandarinfish is doing as well as the adolescent Mandarin in #6, which has the Baby-Safe system and a 3 inch sand bed. Same as #5, which has only a 1/2 inch sand bed, in the front 1/2 of the aquarium but has the most Amphipods. I don't put Amphipods in #4. I do transfer a turkey baster full water out of the Copepod culture aquarium to #4 twice or three times a week, however.
I feed the Amphipods a fish food that's very high in n-3 Polyunsaturated Fatty Acid. The Brine shrimp are fed RotoRich (dry) , Nannochloropus, Tetraselmis, and, when I can get it to grow, Isocrysis. Elmo turned me on to D.T.'s Oyster eggs. I have been using 1 ml. once or twice a day on the Brine shrimp, which have since had accelerated or more normal growth. The same for the Copepods, with the exception of the Oyster eggs.
Nannochloropus and Tetraselmis are easy to grow, but I think I am going to just buy bottles of Isocrysis in the future.

 

[Elmo18]

Hi Jeff. Have the pairs started to spawn again? You're doing good work with all this. Never give up !!!!

I will try get a pair of yellow watchman gobies for kicks and see what happens. All gobies have such little mouths when they hatch, but you know, the stuff you're doing is worth all the effort once you get it down.

If you ever run out of 'culture' stuff, let me know, I can send via priority mail or something. Do you happen to have the 'S' strain rotifers - Brachionis rotundiformis ? or the SS strain?

- Elmo

 

[jeffkeith_us]

Hi Elmo
Thanks for the offer. I have only one Mandarin in each of the three aquariums that I am using for this. Two 30's and a 20, to that I will add another 30 and a 45 gallon later on. The quest right now is to learn about food production and small aquarium habitat requirements.
By-the-way keep an eye on your starfish (you might need to take it out) when you introduce the gobies.
I have L-strain Florida Aqua Farms has S-strain, sometimes. I haven't seen anyone with SS-strain. I think copepods are the best way to go. You can get five strains at once from Adelaide.

 

[jeffkeith_us]

Hi Everyone
Today I was watching the Clownfish and the Mandarin #5. They are doing the same kind of things as the Clownfish and the Mandarin #6 (refer back to my entry on June 11). The Premnas biaculeatus in #5 was pecking food off the bottom and these two also like each other and often caress just like the two in #6. The Premnas biaculeatus in either aquarium #5 or #6 will not peck food off the bottom unless the Mandarin is there, pecking at the food, and food is falling on them both. Neither will either Mandarin peck at falling inert food wile the Premnas biaculeatus is off to some other place in the aquarium.

 

[jeffkeith_us]

Hi Everyone
Wile I was feeding frozen food to the fish and anemones last night the Mandarin in #6 came close to the Clownfish, who was in a feeding frenzy, and got one of the dead brine shrimp.
To wit I make the following statements:

• A Clownfish will instruct a Mandarinfish to feed.
• A Clownfish feeding in the view of an "so instructed" Mandarin will induce feeding on what the Mandarin sees the Clown eating.
• This "Clownfish/Mandarinfish friendship", where the two fish teach each other can be created/brought about by putting the two in an aquarium with no other fish in it.

Jeff Keith

 

[jeffkeith_us]

Today the Mandarinfish in #6 ate a frozen Mysid shrimp whole. I am going to try putting inert fish feed in the Turkey baster. I think it associates the Turkey baster with food now.

 

[Elmo18]

Good progress here Jeff......

- Elmo

 

[jeffkeith_us]

Hi Elmo
The turkey baster worked this morning with frozen Brine shrimp but he spat the fish food back out.
Jeff

 

[jeffkeith_us]

The Mandarinfish in #5 Learned from the Clownfish, Not Me

Hi Everyone
The Mandarin in Aquarium #5 is eating inert fish food. I did not teach it this. I was working with the Mandarin in Aquarium #6. This is something the Mandarinfish in #5 learned from the Clownfish, not me.

I think it is very important to remember that in aquariums #5 & #6:
1)Both Clownfish and Mandarinfish are wild caught.
2)They are the only two fish in each aquarium.
3)They are all adolescent.

The Mandarins in #4 and #6 are eating both live and frozen brine shrimp only from the turkey baster.

The mandarin in #4 is a juvenile and is without the "Mandarinfish/Clownfish friendship" as it was added to the aquarium after the large Clownfish had been given a mate. This was wrong, never do it that way.
I should have set up a 15 gallons x 24 inches or 20 gallons x 30 inches inch Quarantine aquarium with some Live rock. Also, it should have a Deep sandbed for Amphipods and Copepods. It should be seeded with a large population of food animals. Then provided with one small (no more than two inches) Host sea anemone (E. quadracolor) and the Clownfish / Mandarinfish friendship built with wild caught adolescent fish.
Then after six weeks of quarantine , the Anemone (still attached to it's rock) and both fish moved to their new home all at the same time.

Jeff Keith

 

[KRYPTICOL]

Absolutely the best thread I've read in awhile, so glad i stumbled though here...Jeff excellent work! You are pioneering! Keep it up!!!