Mandarin larvae

[jeffkeith_us]

Mandarin larvae are very small. Too small for rotifiers. How do I get started in Copepod nauplii?

 

[NaH2O]

Welcome to Reef Frontiers!!!

I'm not sure.....see if this link helps you. It is from one of our sponsors Oceanpods.com: Tips on Culturing Copepods.

 

[jeffkeith_us]

Thanks Nikki
I culture Nannochloropsis in two liter flask. I gess that would work. But I don't think Nannochloropsis would be the correct alga.
Jeff

 

[DonW]

Thanks Nikki
I culture Nannochloropsis in two liter flask. I gess that would work. But I don't think Nannochloropsis would be the correct alga.
Jeff

Your half way there. You feed the rotifers and/or pods the Nannocloropsis. You can get a pod culture from one of the sponsers. Sorry I forget their name. Newly hatched continous culture rotifers are just as small as pods.

Don

 

[ladygator]

Copepod advice

Hi Jeff - I did get your email, but I thought I would answer in the general forum so others could see the response.

First of all, I'm glad that you are trying to raise mandarins, because I believe that they can be domesticated to take inert feeds, if they are grown correctly, so it will be interesting to see if you can make it work.

Copepod nauplii are a little bit tricky, because they are so much smaller than the adults (about 20X smaller), so you need to have the right mesh sizes to collect them (about 30 microns) and the right food.

While Nanno can be helpful, it is not a complete diet in itself. Other helpful phytoplankton species are the Tetraselmis and Isochrysis which are readily available. These are also good enrichments for the rotifers.

Also, you might want to combine your feeding of live feeds with the feeding of small microparticulates, so that when the larvae are ready, they can be weaned onto inert feeds.

Hope this helps, feel free to post follow-ups.

Adelaide

 

[DonW]

Have you found a way to limit pod reproduction. I cant get them to reproduce at a reasonable pace. With my rotifers the will slow to a good pace if I raise the temp slightly but not the pods.

Thanks
Don

 

[jeffkeith_us]

Hi Adelaide
I thought that would be the case with different alga and my mesh only go down to 58 microns. What about what Don is saying? That some of the new rotifers are smaller.
Is anyone using copepod nauplii for any fish larvae other than Dragonets? What do you think copepod larvae as a first feeding would do for the survival rates? In the magazine article Nikki hyperlinked me to, Frank split his ten gallon aquarium, one section each for rotifers and copepod larvae.

 

[jeffkeith_us]

Thanks Don I found it.

 

[ladygator]

Thoughts on pods

Hi Jeff and Don -

Those are good questions. If you want to limit pod reproduction, just don't feed them, or feed them very little. They will reach a population density that is comfortable for them. (I wish I had that problem!)

58 micron mesh will probably not capture the majority of your pod nauplii. It really depends on the species that you are working with, but many of the best ones for larval fish are very very small.

There are supposed to be different strains of rotifers that range in size. They are called L-rotifers ("L" for Large) and S- rotifers ("S" for small), and now people are talking about "SS" rotifers for "Super Small".

However, beware! If you are seeing a lot of smaller rotifers in the culture, this may indicate that production is not optimal - that the rotifers are sexually reproducing. The males are smaller than the females, and will show up in systems that aren't running at the highest rate of reproduction, which happens when the females reproduce asexually.

But if you are trying to have slow reproduction, as in Don's case, it's okay to see a bunch of males.

Don - what are you trying to raise? Are rotifers working for you, or do you use a variety of feeds? I like to hear opinions about various feeds so I can pass the info along.

Thanks,

Adelaide

 

[DonW]

Hi Jeff and Don

Don - what are you trying to raise? Are rotifers working for you, or do you use a variety of feeds? I like to hear opinions about various feeds so I can pass the info along.

Thanks,

Adelaide

I'm only doing rotifers and pods. I feed both rotifer feed/diet from Reed. I had bad luck with DT's and found its much easier to buy Nannochloropsis concentrate. Also makes it easier to keep the culture clean and sterile longer. The rotifers have been running off the same culture for a long time but the pods only a three weeks. I dont want a huge operation so each is in a 1.5 aga tank I alternate 50% collection daily although the pods could be collected daily. I started this process for one mandarine that lived only a year. I dont think I'll get another one, but my clown eats more than his share.

Don

 

[DonW]

Forgot to add. I agree that excess male rotifers is a good sign that the culture is going down hill. If you have a way to count males and females it makes it alot eaier. I use a microscope. Its like comparing the mens room to the ladies. The ladies is always cleaner.

Don

 

[jeffkeith_us]

Hi Everyone
I built the tank and put Green water in it. Picked out some copepods and put them in too. Nannochloropsis is the only alga I grow, however. I will get to work on obtaining Tetraselmis and Isochrysis alge.

 

[Elmo18]

Just to add to Don's comments, Instant-Algae paste is much cleaner and easier to use, and a lot denser as well. That comes with cost I guess...and I chose not to use it...for the time being.

This could turn into a nice little experiment with the gobies.

- Elmo

 

[jeffkeith_us]

Greenwater

Hi Everyone; Thank you Elmo; Sorry about your Mandarinfish Don, hang-in-there.
Just so how I am doing this is common knowledge: I grow Nannochloropsis alga in raw, city tap-water, no CO2, and no biofilter; starting with 7 clean 2 litre flask (clear/clean pop bottles work just as well, don't use dish washing soap or if you do get all the residue out), a ventilation cap (if you use pop bottles drill five holes in the cap, in an "x" pattern just like the dots on face of a Domino with the center hole drilled out to 3/16th's and the 4 holes on the periphery drilled with a 1/16th drill bit) no air stone, and the 3/16th rigid air tube; put in enough Tropic Marine salt to obtain a specific gravity reading of 1.014 to 1.020 with 1.016 being target; fill the flask with hot raw city tap-water, to about 40mm(about an inch and a half) below the cap; let the filled and caped flask bubble in front of the lights for about 2 days @ room temperature in order to let the Chlorine and Chloramine do their job and go by-by ; and afterwards add Gillards f/2 formula, transfer a test tube of starter culture and we're off to the races.

 

[Elmo18]

That's about all I do as well Keith. I know some others who are doing the same.

Seems to work, not as clean as Instant-Algae paste, but hey its cost-effective for now.

- Elmo

 

[jeffkeith_us]

Hi Everyone
"First set back", Dr's. Foster & Smith's Live Aquarea.com say they can't discern the sex of their young Mandarins. They recommend buying four or more. That's true, the odds are one chance in nineteen you would get all one sex if you buy five.
But, I am not sure if I could sustain five growing Mandarins with the number of amphipods and copepods I have cultured at this time. In fact, I think I will change my position and say; I am sure they would wipe out the crustacean population and go without during the growth curve of Tetraselmis and Isochrysis algae.

 

[jeffkeith_us]

Elmo
Like the man said "It aint gadda be per-dee it just gotta work".
Jeff

 

[jeffkeith_us]

Just now I was looking at copepod tank I put together the other day and there are some juvenile copepods on the front side.

 

[jeffkeith_us]

Hi Nikki
The Hyper-link you gave me the other day about culturing copepods gave me some thoughts about culturing amphipods too. Already had a tank so I drew down some water from tank 2 and 3 put in blue mat, carbon, bio-wheel, a protean skimmer, food and some caulerpa. Thought about the skimming process for a little wile and turned it off, however it's still installed. Then populated the tank. Now all I need is a few days for the amphipods' population numbers to come up. May start another tank in the week, no skimmer.
Aquarium's 5 and 6 amphipod and copepod numbers are growing. I think, if I had just one male/female pair of Mandarin fish 5 would support them all by itself.

 

[Elmo18]

Hi Keith. Can we get an approximation on how big the mandarin larvae is right after hatching. Are they 1 mm? 2 mm? I am comparing them to clownfish larvae, which also depend on species.

Thanks,
Elmo