Mega-Powerful Nitrate and Phosphate Remover Replaces Skimmer, Refugium, Everything

[Herefishyfishy]

Sea Monster, do you have SPS or other delicates in your tank?
Keeping up with water changes and other coral husbandry?
And what is your purpose for turning off a skimmer while nitrates are still present, research?

 

[DonW]

since my scrubber has established, my skimmer is acting funny. I used to clean the cup every 4-5 days, now its been running for 7 days straight and it does not need cleaning yet.

scrubber has anything to do with that?

my N is still @ 15 where it has been for months.

The scrubber will not effect skimmate. The algae will uptake the nutrients such as N and P that your skimmer is only going to remove indirectly. Check the skimmer function like the venturi for issues with the skimmer. May just be the fact that your skimmer is catching up.
The fact that the N is the same is a sign that either the skimmer is missing detritus and allowing it to rot and turn to nitrates or your lacking maintenance. The algae is not keeping up with the nutrient load of your system, so dont turn your skimmer off.



Don

 

[DonW]

OK then, skimmer is off as of last night. I'll keep checking N in the next few days to see what happens.

This would make no sense what so ever.

Don

 

[busdriver]

I don't skim, but i would wait until it reached 0 until i turned it off, if I were you...

 

[SantaMonica]

Monster what I meant was, if less organics were coming out via the skimmer, yet N did not rise, then the extra organics are being consumed by the corals. Organics will either be consumed, or rot into N and P. You don't have to turn your skimmer off if you don't want to, unless that's your end goal. Whatever you do keep a daily check on N and P too. Ideally, we want to improve your screen so that N and P start coming down (skimmer or not). How about some update growth pics and P levels...

 

[DonW]

Monster what I meant was, if less organics were coming out via the skimmer, yet N did not rise, then the extra organics are being consumed by the corals. Organics will either be consumed, or rot into N and P.

Probably more the fact that the system is maturing and denitrifaction is taking place. The amount that the corals are consuming is not going to slow a skimmer either.

Don

 

[Herefishyfishy]

Another cause of the skimmer slowing is that surfactants are being captured by the algal filter. This would be fine as the two systems compete with each other in this regard, but is no cause to turn off the skimmer which removes many undesirables such as DOCs;dissolved organic carbon (organic matter) Helps loads to remove organic matter from the water before it breaks down into ammonia, nitrite, and nitrates. Some algae are also known to create some DOC’s as part of their normal biological function.

DOC’s are carbohydrates, fats, proteins, amino acids, enzymes, hormones, phenolic compounds, included in the thousands of organic compounds.

As to protein skimmers, "smoke em if you got em"

 

[Herefishyfishy]

Monster what I meant was, if less organics were coming out via the skimmer, yet N did not rise, then the extra organics are being consumed by the corals. Organics will either be consumed, or rot into N and P. You don't have to turn your skimmer off if you don't want to, unless that's your end goal. Whatever you do keep a daily check on N and P too. Ideally, we want to improve your screen so that N and P start coming down (skimmer or not). How about some update growth pics and P levels...

Since we have someone willing to risk his tank inhabitants, why not go for it.
He had a skimmer that he felt was performing fine, but for whatever reason such as too many fish or too much feeding or too infrequent water changes, his nitrates were still high. OK, under these conditions, he added an algae filter and the skimmate level dropped.

How about just turning off the skimmer and watching the result. Maybe the inhabitants suffer and so what if a few creatures die, look at all that could be learned.

My point is, algae filters have been around for decades. A friend of mine had a commercial frosted glass sheet style algae filter many decades ago. These type filters have been studied by scientists who concluded that they were not sufficient for the aquarium. Papers were published. You disagree and that is fine. You have the right in America to market old tech as new. But perhaps it might be a bit irresponsible to convince new reefers to stop using tech that has proven to be successful?

You seem like a great guy and I am enjoying all your excellent contribution to this thread and to Reef Frontiers. Your write-up includes a brilliant job with the photos. But lets make sure everyone knows that this is still your DIY experiment and not a replacement for all already owned working equipment. I'd hate for some newbies to accidentally kill off some tank pets (marine fish) due to failing to follow all the requirements of good reef husbandry.

regards,
Mike

 

[SantaMonica]

I just finished up some diagrams of the most-used screen installations. The overflow-feed is good because it usually has a very large flow capacity, but, you can't turn off the return pump for too long or the screen will dry out. Also, pulsing the flow is not easy:

The pump-feed below will free you from the return pump, and makes it very easy to pulse the flow using a timer. But the pump must be able to deliver 35 gph per inch of width of the screen:

The sumpless-feed (or "bucket"), which was the original design, is how you get the screen up above the tank. The pump in this case goes in the tank itself. Also, the walls of the bucket let you flow more without worrying about water spraying sideways:

 

[SeaMonster]

skimmer still off

I have a few sps frags, they are doing OK. Softies are in excellent shape. LPS happier than ever. fish are floating

I know turning the skimmer off will not hurt my fish or corals, these guys are much tougher than most of us think. You think Naso cares whether the skimmer is on or not? He'd live in a bucket if he had to.

I know my skimmer well, its an ETSS 600 w/beckett mod + Iwaki100RLT. when this beast is not performing well, there something up with the tank not the skimmer.

No animals will be harmed during this experiment. I know my pets, I'm one with them. I pet Naso he likes it

 

[freetareef]

wow... i just put my hand in my tank to give my fishie some seaweed and my female clown attact me!!!! ahhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[DonW]

skimmer still off

I have a few sps frags, they are doing OK. Softies are in excellent shape. LPS happier than ever. fish are floating

I know turning the skimmer off will not hurt my fish or corals, these guys are much tougher than most of us think. You think Naso cares whether the skimmer is on or not? He'd live in a bucket if he had to.

I know my skimmer well, its an ETSS 600 w/beckett mod + Iwaki100RLT. when this beast is not performing well, there something up with the tank not the skimmer.

No animals will be harmed during this experiment. I know my pets, I'm one with them. I pet Naso he likes it

:lol::lol::lol: Well there ya go all the scientific data anybody should need.

 

[Krish]

Well there ya go all the scientific data anybody should need.

LOL Don!! :lol:

I think the idea (algae scrubber) is a pretty cool concept when it comes to exporting bound up excess nutrients, but as a sole means of filtration, I wouldn't go so far as to say that by itself, it will replace other forms of filtration. For me, a skimmer and really good husbandry goes a long way. Just my opinion

wow... i just put my hand in my tank to give my fishie some seaweed and my female clown attact me!!!! ahhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!

Haha! Totally related to algae scrubbers :lol: :lol:

 

[SantaMonica]

Reminder Of The Day:

Yellowing of the water: This is due to cleaning or scraping the screen while the screen is still in the tank water system (i.e., "in-system"). When you break algae strands, they release their chlorophyll related chemical contents, which drain downwards. If your screen is still in-system when you clean it, it drains into your tank system water, causing yellowing. Another cause of yellowing is not cleaning your screen at all. Solution: Clean your screen at least once a week, and do it by taking it to the sink and running tap water over while you clean it.

 

[SeaMonster]

once a week? good to know.

N: 10 today woo hooo. not sure why. I dont have a P test but no algae issues knock on wood

my scrubber is in an empty 55g that has some egg crate in it and the egg crate is covered with HA and Cyano but virtually no trace of it in the DT.

Does a fuge lower N ?

 

[trido]

OMG!!!
I surely dont have time to debate this system with anyone. But I cant help to post what I see. This exact same thread is happening on near ten forums with SM ignoring everything all of the experienced reef keepers (that have been doing this for decades.) and only replying to the newb and making jabs at the old guys.
Alot of old, time tested, reefers here and on other sites saying. "you know, this is a pretty cool DIY, but watch out they are a thing of the past and eventually be problematic."
Then I see Newbs, including SM saying "This is the best thing thats ever happened to my reef."

I have to ask the newbs.
What are you putting into your reef that has you PO4 and N so darned high? I personally have had my reef running for three years and have NEVER tested postitive for any PO4 or nitrates (salifert) AS a matter of fact, I had only eight snails in my 120 because the rest starved to death. Quit feeding your fish so much (store bought pellets and such) and you wont have such huge issues. Have you seen pellets on the reef? Have you seen flake food on the reef. Did you know that fish sometimes go for more than a few hours without food? Some fish, such as large eels can go for days without food. Just one more thing to think about.

 

[dieden]

so how bout the cowboys game???????????

 

[SeaMonster]

I think we should all just go away so the regulars can talk to eachother

 

[trido]

I think we should all just go away so the regulars can talk to eachother

I dont think you should do that at all. AS a matter of fact, you are one of the regulars lately.

I just am stating what Im seeing regarding this thread and many of the others that SM has created all across the country. Ive created some pretty cool DIY things myself but havent tried marketing them (for free in Santa Monicas case) on every reefing forum I could find on the web. I just wonder why SM is trying Soo hard to get this going on so many tanks. What is the true ulterior motive, if there is one? Who is SM? How long has he been reefing?
I also think that having the old timers posting big "beware" signs is a good thing. Remember, this isnt a new technique. Its an old one, apparently not a very good one.

Again, I'll say it again. Very cool DIY turf scrubber. I hope it works out well for all who use it.

 

[trido]

wow... i just put my hand in my tank to give my fishie some seaweed and my female clown attact me!!!! ahhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!

Let me guess.... Its a maroon clown, and you gave her an anenome.