Need a lighting expert to verify this please.

[gbr]

I am trying to find the most bang for the buck when it comes to lighting. I currently have 250W M58 (raw) ballasts pushing XM 10K bulbs and in theory am getting 137 ppfd / bulb according to Sanjay's research. (I have great sps growth currently)

Now I was trying to supliment the 10K's by using 2 15K XM bulbs to get a more blue appearance, but they bulbs were very dim. So again looking at Sanjay's site, 55 ppfd.

So I decided to put a 15000 K temp into the search engine here http://www.reeflightinginfo.arvixe.com/selectcolortemp.php without selecting a wattage or any other variable. I was shocked to see that a Iwasaki 175W bulb on an Icecap e-ballast had higher ppfd than everything except some 400W ballast/XM 15K combos. (86 ppfd) Is this right?

Will the 175 watt combo on that page with a 86ppfd appear brighter on the tank than a 400 watt combo with a 82 ppfd?

I could save a ton in electric costs right?

In looking at 10K bulbs. There are 10K 400W combos that have 1/2 the ppfd of 250W combos...even down to 1/3 the ppfd. What am I missing?

 

[jsmkmavity]

check out the t-5's

 

[mojoreef]

Yea the 15K bulbs suck, take a look at the 14K hamiltons, they come in at 100pfd for a 250 watt on most ballasts.


MIke

 

[gbr]

According the Sanjay's site. 53 ppfd on an M58 ballast for a Hamilton 14K. Even less than the XM 15K. They are 99 ppfd on and HQI ballast but that is at 331 watts.

What kills me is the 20K bulbs are brighter at the same wattage. Is there something wrong with the test setup for the 15K bulb? Something that isn't measured?

For the below numbers all on an M58 ballast.
XM10K 137ppfd at 315W
XM15K 55ppdd at 295W
XM20K 73ppfd at 319W

This curve makes no sense.

I wonder if I should upgrade to M80 ballasts or just upgrade to 20K bulbs?

 

[zoomfish 1]

I think I have the same ballasts running 2 250w, 10K coralvue reflux bulbs. I supplement with PC 96w actinics. Get great color and growth. I chose the bulbs from Sanjay's site.

For my money, I love the coralvue bulbs. Although 10K, they burn something like 13k. A little blue, but nothing like the 20k's. With the supplement, not too much heat transfer (maybe 2 degrees at the most) and just enough blue for my taste.

 

[Reefdaddy1]

I agree with MIke on this one 14k Hamiltons are very good, But you may wanna try a PFO ballst VHO acintics. I get great push out the old warhorse ballast and the VHO blue can not be beat. IMHO

 

[gbr]

zoomfish - you wouldn't happen to have a used up CV10K bulb lying around as a spare would you? I would pay shipping both ways to borrow it and check it out.

reefdaddy - I am trying to get away from using any flourescent lights on the system. They just need to be replaced too often...because of my hood and their proximity to the MH bulbs, they get way too hot and maybe last 6 months...unless you are suggesting vho only?...already had PC only and moved on to MH...not going back

 

[Reefdaddy1]

Well if your looking for longevity , then run T5s. They last up to 18 months without replacement. Get yourself some standard HO ballast instead of IC and T% bulbs and away you go. They are better then PC and some feel comparable to MH with standard HO ballast. and the blue on the new ATI bulbs is awsome. I prefer them over a MH anyday.

 

[gbr]

I am only seeing a 4ft 54W bulb out there. Is that as big as they come. What is a good source for reading the pros and cons of the T5?

 

[Reefdaddy1]

I am only seeing a 4ft 54W bulb out there. Is that as big as they come. What is a good source for reading the pros and cons of the T5?

Well the Pros are:
Long life
Great PAR
Save money on electric
Save money on bulb replacent
and can put 8 of them under a tank hood.

Cons
Some think
No shimmer like MH


48 inch could be staggered to run a length of tank. I have a 72 inch 160 g that I have total T5. I run 10 bulbs in it. 36 inchX10 5 each side. I keep clams and BTAs SPS softies. An I like the color of the tank. It dont shimmer like a MH but that isnt the selling point to me. Also there is a New T6 comming out, That may settle your delema.

 

[gbr]

Anywhere that has the PAR ratings on the bulbs? I can't find anything. I imagine finding PAR on a 3ft bulb is a bit of a challenge but I am sure someone has done it. A point source like a MH would concentrate the light and look brighter than a 3ft bulb but the 3 ft bulb "puts out" over the entire length. Thanks for the input so far.

 

[gbr]

Well I will post more questions as this becomes more complex. The old me would just go out and order a 12 bulb setup and call it good...that's why I am broke.

I found references to lumens per watt for T5 lamps and MH bulbs.

T5's average 90-100 lumens/w
MH average 80 lumens/w

So initially thinking about a 12 x 39 W setup would mean ~45000 lumens
My current setup yeilds ~80000 lumens.

I don't see how I could go with T5 only.

Although more efficient, cooler, cheaper...I don't see being able to pack enough light under the hood.

 

[Reefdaddy1]

Anywhere that has the PAR ratings on the bulbs? I can't find anything. I imagine finding PAR on a 3ft bulb is a bit of a challenge but I am sure someone has done it. A point source like a MH would concentrate the light and look brighter than a 3ft bulb but the 3 ft bulb "puts out" over the entire length. Thanks for the input so far.

Here is a thread by Grim Reefer. Its one the Best I have seen on PAR ratings for T5 bulbs. Its lengthy but very detailed.


http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=724967&perpage=25&pagenumber=1


Here is a large tank that has standard T5 lighting. his support of SPS is awsome. But you can see results of T5 standard HO on here.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=700454&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

I dont like refering to RC. I boycotted that site awhile back. But they do have some very good threads on testing. Try those and you will see.

Bob

 

[liveforphysics]

Reefdaddy, I agree with you about the T5s. IMO its the best way to go.

Offtopic, the car in your avatar picture is my favorite streetable car of all time. If i had a billion dollars, you would see me in a 7 with an f20c.

 

[gbr]

Ah-ha...Thank you very much for the link on RC to Grim's data. I am only through page 1 and it is very enlightening. That is what I am looking for...facts. Well off to read some more.

 

[Reefdaddy1]

Reefdaddy, I agree with you about the T5s. IMO its the best way to go.

Offtopic, the car in your avatar picture is my favorite streetable car of all time. If i had a billion dollars, you would see me in a 7 with an f20c.

Hey Phys, I build em Bro. Do it as a Hobby . Bulding one now , Frame is all welded and ready to go. I got buy some Front suspension for it yet to get it rolling. But I used a GM vortec engine V6 and a Modified GM rear end from a jimmy. Trany is from a V6 Comaro. Does 160 MPH when finished. I sold my last one to Doctor here. If you want one cheap I can show you how to do it. Hardly any real skills. Just equipment to do it.

Bob

 

[liveforphysics]

O M G!!!!

Dream come true!!!!!!!

We need to talk.

 

[Reefdaddy1]

sure just PM your Phone and I will call ya. Or MSN or Yahoo. Just let me know.

 

[LakeEd]

Hey T-Man,

You get wonderful growth in your tank... I'm not sure why you are wanting to change your lighting again there. Perhaps if you could explain why you are thinking of changing, what your hopes for this change are... you will get a more specific input from people here to help in your decision???

 

[gbr]

Well I am getting tired of spending money on crap that doesn't work. I do have great growth but I also have 1400W (rated) over the tank. I am replacing the crappy PC lights every 6 months at $30 each and MH every 12 months at $70 each...plus shipping I am somewhere around $520 / year on light bulbs. Now factor in the actual wattage use of around 1500W x average of 10 hours a day, and I am using 15KWH a day...for another $550 in electricity...(not factoring in the chiller that has to run even in the winter at 650W)

So $1070 per year on lighting my tank.

So I tried to get the color I want by using 15K bulbs and cutting out the PC bulbs. Cuts a major cost in bulb replacement and energy at a loss of 400W of pc light.

Well, the 15K bulbs put out only 55ppfd on my ballast, so now it is too damn dim.

According to what I am reading. An 8 bulb overdriven T5 light hood will draw ~700W (2 IC660s--read Grim Reaper thread referenced earlier). The bulbs need to be replaced ~12-14 months (due to overdriving) and the par will be somewhere in the ball park of 183ppfd...vs the ~137ppfd of a an XM 10K MH bulb or the abysmal 55ppfd of the XM 15K. Bulbs average $22 each...so we are looking at cutting the electricity cost in more than half, and the bulbs cost ~$170 per year plus the same shipping as above (less due to lasting closer to 1.2-1.5 years) and the chiller will run less.

So using the same electric KWH costs I will be at $425 per year for the T5 setup. Holy CRAP you say?! Now you want to switch too don't you?

Now between selling my MH and PC setups and the cost savings, this $800 project will pay for itself in less than a year.

Anyone see a math problem here? Am I on track?