Newbie Starting, Please Help

[Holidayz]

Hi Everyone,

New to salt water/reef keeping and would like to start off with the right foot.
Feb 18th will be the Big Day setting up my tank and below are the steps that I have in mind.
I hope to get every steps covered, please excuse me if the post is getting long.

Start with the list of eq I have/ordered.
65 G tank 36 X 18 X 24
50 G sump 36 X 18 X 18 -- configuration: Input, Protein Skimmer, Refugium, Return, seperated by 2 sets of glass baffels after the skimmer and before the return.
Overflow - CPR 150
Protein Skimmer - SWC xtreme 180
Refugium - Growing chaeto, no sand
Calcium Reactor - SWC CR 140 D
Poly Reactor PR 30/30 -- for Bio Pellets
JBJ Auto-Top-Offs

2 Sicce Voyager 3
2 Sicce Voyager 2
JBJ Ocean Pulse Quadra Wavemaker
4 T5 HO tubes -- 2 Actinic (Lux 133), 2 Power Glo (Lux 181, 18000K)
1" Caribesea life aragonite
70 lbs live rock
Salt - Instant Ocean Reef Crystal

Will be mainly keeping LPS along with 4 - 6 fish, until I have the money to get a better lighting system and better experience, by then, moving onto sps and clams. Fish will always be kept at just 4 - 6 smaller ones.

Now the main event.
Will start the salt mix in tank, using RO water, couple nights before and bring up the temp to 78 degrees.
Picking up the live rock on the 17th, clean and store it in a garbage can with airstone, water pump and heater.
Plumbing will begin on Feb 18 by someone else. I'm extremely bad at these. Spent all day changing my facet in the bathroom!
Putting the rock in tank after the plumb work on the 18th.
Putting sand
Start flow pumps, skimmer, bio-pellets reactor.
Calcium reactor remains disconnected until I have corals in
Leave a small piece of shrimp in for a few days.
Lights off
Change 20% water every week, checking various levels everyday, hopefully I can have a fully cycled tanks within 4 weeks.

Confused
Although most eq is ordered or has arrived, the tank is not.
I have the option to build the tank with a build it overflow, which the LFS said is the most effeicient and quiet setup. The tank is in my study room and quietness is important.
But I'm concerned I cannot clean the inside of the build-in overflow. I can't even see how dirty it is! Vs an add-on overflow, I can easily take it down and clean it. Your comments please.

Confused
Read mostly one shall start out with couple hardy fish once tank cycled.
But one of the LFS owner told me I should start with LPS as their bio load is minimal and not as demanding. Therefore I can have "something" to watch while the tank keeps "aging". Then can add fish after another month.

Confused
Should I be adding additives like Prodibio Bio Digest along with Prodibio Bioptim to kick start the cycle?
If adding, which day shall I start? From the 1st day?
Once tank cycled, is it really necessary to add them every couple weeks as stated on their package?

Confused
Planning to dose kalk from my top-off bucket. Do I dump the deposit at the bottom everytime I re-fill the bucket (5 G) or I can just add more RO water, stir it and let it settle again until they're gone?

Please note I only stated a few "confused", but I may, or probably have, a lot if mistakes. Please correct me if my plan has anything wrong and all comments are highly appreciated.
Thanks in advance!!

 

[ReefLogic]

I would probably go built in overflow.

You CAN add fish or corals. But typically the better idea is just have sand, rock, water in the tank for a while to get it all cycled and ready for life. I added macro algae to my tank when I first set it up and it cycled pretty quickly.

I wouldn't add anything to kick start the cycle...the water, sand, and rock will do that for you.

Don't know about the Kalk dosing because I don't and dose and never have.

You ARE going to make mistakes....we all have....TRUST ME....we ALL have. Just ask as many questions as you can and you should be ok. But remember if people give you advise and you don't follow it....they are probably going to be a bit less helpful the next time.

oh....WELCOME TO RF!!!!

 

[Holidayz]

Thanks for your input!

Not arguing with you, and I can see most people opt for built in overflow....
So, dirt or what-so-ever building up behind that black glass won't post a problem? I thought it could be a time-bomb....

Isn't that once corals are in and used up the calcium, by utilizing a calcium reactor with CO2 to lower the pH to better disolve the calcium medium, one need to add back some alkalinity into the water and kalk is one of the cheaper method?
Haha, as I said, I'm a newbie, these are things I've read only, no experience at all, and that's why I asked.

Yeah, hopefully, with the advise I get from here, I make as little mistake as possible la !

 

[ReefLogic]

Again....I have never dosed. I believe in better salts provide better results...but that is just me. I know there have been several debates over salts and whether or not there is an actual difference and so on. I have used Tropic Marin since day 1 and have not had a single issue with low calcium or alk or anything else.

As for the overflow....I don't really know. I have built in overflows in my current tank and yeah I get debris build up but I can just use a baster to get it all stirred up and pulled into overflow, down into sump, and into sock. So I have never really experienced any issues there either.

 

[NWDiver]

Hi Holidayz, Welcome to RF!
Built-in overflow for sure. You will collect some stuff in there, but it should be no issue. I cleaned mine at 9 months when I changed the lights. Check into the type of overflow, for dead silent you can't beat a full siphon, but you will need to drill a third hole to make that work.

As ReefLogic says, go with the empty tank and let the cycle happen. Not much point in killing critters with ammonia or nitrite. It would be frustrating to try to keep something healthy with the parms out of whack.

If you do your water changes with good reef salt, you are a long way from worring about kalk or a reactor. Get things cooking and after you have some coral to draw your Ca down AND you can see it on your tests, then you can dose as needed. Many people keep their Ca/Alk/Mg balance with water changes.

Get good test kits and follow your cycle, keep a logbook of your results and it will be easy to see when the cycle is finished and if/when you need to dose any supplement.


-Todd

 

[Holidayz]

Good point ReefLogic! Thanks!
The LFS recommanded Tropic Marin as well. I use Reef Crystal just because I have 2 new buckets left over when I'm raising adult brine shrimps to feed my fresh water fish and don't want to just throw them away.
I think I'll scrap all those dosing ideas and see how it goes first!

Looks like build in is the way. Can you please explain a bit more how you clean it? Blast it....wouldn't that add too much fresh water into the sump suddenly?

 

[Holidayz]

Haha, looks like I worried too much. Like I reply to ReefLogic, could you please explain a bit how you clean it?

Yeah, I'm used to do water changes as I keep discuss. I'm changing that almost everyday! Planning to do this weekly with salt water (20%), you think I'll have a good chance without dosing anything? I mean with medium load of corals.
Oh, I better call the LFS to hold off the calcium reactor! Hope it shouldn't be a problem since I bought so many things with him!

Thanks again! Really lighten me up. One can get lost in this easily with so many info and so many LFS trying to sell stuffs.

 

[Holidayz]

Oh, NWDrive, what you mean by Full Siphon? There are different types of build in type? Drill a third hole? The LFS told me they'll add an extra tubing to dampen noise, but never mention drillig a third hole. In fact, there is only one hold, a 1 inch or 1.5 inch opening for the water to go down. They said 1.5 inch much better. Is that necessary for my small tank size? With 1.5 inch, the box will be very big and my tank is so small.....

 

[IPisces]

I agree with Reeflogic on built in overflow. Hang on the back overflows can loose siphon and can cause an overflowed tank if its not set up right to allow for the possibility of a loss of siphoning. Plus they are louder.

You can add a piece of raw shrimp to test the cycle. If your starting with established live rock, you may not have much of a cycle. I started my first tank this way and I never had a cycle.

When you do get your first fish, get one that is peaceful, or not too aggressive. When you go to add the next fish, the first one might be aggressive towards the new additions.

Oh, add little blue legged crabs and snails of all kinds. A few emerald crabs and scarlet reef crabs are good additions for a clean up crew. They should have plenty to eat if your using live rock. You can feed them too.

Before you put your rock in the tank, check it good for any unwanted algae and pest anemones and remove them.

I am dosing with a two part system and would like to set up an auto top off with kalk water too, so I would like more info on this too.

 

[Holidayz]

I agree with Reeflogic on built in overflow. Hang on the back overflows can loose siphon and can cause an overflowed tank if its not set up right to allow for the possibility of a loss of siphoning. Plus they are louder.

You can add a piece of raw shrimp to test the cycle. If your starting with established live rock, you may not have much of a cycle. I started my first tank this way and I never had a cycle.

When you do get your first fish, get one that is peaceful, or not too aggressive. When you go to add the next fish, the first one might be aggressive towards the new additions.

Oh, add little blue legged crabs and snails of all kinds. A few emerald crabs and scarlet reef crabs are good additions for a clean up crew. They should have plenty to eat if your using live rock. You can feed them too.

Before you put your rock in the tank, check it good for any unwanted algae and pest anemones and remove them.

I am dosing with a two part system and would like to set up an auto top off with kalk water too, so I would like more info on this too.

Oh...overflowed tank! That scare the **** out of me! If that even happens, my wife will kill me and I'll never be able to keep any aquarium forever!

Yeah, cleaning of the LR, that's another thing worries me. I've been to quite a few LFS and I don't seems to find some good quality LR. There is one more shop I'll visit tomorrow and how that goes.

 

[ReefLogic]

You can always pick some up from some of us. But you are going to be paying shipping. Might be worth it if you are worried about the quality of their rock out there. You can always just buy theirs and boil it too. That works.

 

[IPisces]

Pick and choose the best pieces of rock, and if you have to, get it from multiple locations. Your going to battle one thing or a nother at some time. Just easier to check the rock and get 90% of what you can see off before aquascaping than trying to get to it after you have your rock set up in the tank. There are a number of ways to battle algaes and pest anemones. We're all here to help with it when you do. Your starting off on the right foot though with the RO water.

 

[Holidayz]

Pick and choose the best pieces of rock, and if you have to, get it from multiple locations. Your going to battle one thing or a nother at some time. Just easier to check the rock and get 90% of what you can see off before aquascaping than trying to get to it after you have your rock set up in the tank. There are a number of ways to battle algaes and pest anemones. We're all here to help with it when you do. Your starting off on the right foot though with the RO water.

Yeah, guess thats what I have to do, pick up couple pieces here and there.
Hate to get live items on line. Tried getting some aquarium plants couple times and they arrive hardly resemble the pics on the site, I almost can't reconize what that are!

 

[jrgilles]

Sounds like a great start!

For overflow, either way works. Lots of people really like built in, I have overflow boxes and have had no issues at all with them.

I wouldn't worry about putting a piece of shrimp in. You can add a fish or 2 (rec. green chromis) although some people here might have a problem with that. I'd wait a little bit, but you could put an LPS in early to have something to look at.

I wouldn't add additives. Should be fine to start without anything like that. Once you have some corals in, you'll want to check hardness, Ca, and Mg. You can put some dolomite in your CaReactor and that will keep your Mg up (start with 10-15% and see how that does). You will probably want to get your Ca, Mg and KH in check WITHOUT the Ca reactor first. The reactor is for maintaining levels, and does not work well for raising them. So get them set, then dial in the reactor. Kalk should keep your calcium and pH in good shape.

For the top-off. You want to put in 5G, add the kalk and mix. The ppt at the bottom is stuff you don't want to add to the tank. So, when you refill the topoff, you should add more kalk. You will want to occassionally clean out the crap at the bottom (although I haven't been that good at this.) Make sure your top off pump is taking water from a bit above the bottom so you don't dump all the precipitate into your sump.

One other thing to mention:
If you want your tank quiet, I highly recommend a 'herbie' style drain for the tank. It runs completely silent, and is easy to set up.
If you do this though, you need 2 drains from the display tank to the sump. The first one you run at a full syphon (no air in the line, so no noise. You dial down the flow with a gate valve (or ball valve) inline with the drain pipe.) The second one is a backup drain, and is just there incase the first drain gets an obstruction (snail or whatever.) That way it can pick up the water and won't flood. Anyway, this will run totally silent without modification.

I would recommend a backup drain no matter what drain style you go with though. Better safe than sorry. If you have one drain and something happens to it, your tank will overflow and you will have water everywhere. A second 'emergency' drain will most likely save you from many possible disasters. I have 2 drains on all my tanks for this reason.

 

[NWDiver]

The overflow that I am talking about is often called a herbie overflow. There is a diagram partway down this page Herbie Overflow Plumbing that shows the idea.
The common method to control noise is a "durso" stand pipe. It works pretty well, but the herbie method is totally silent.
You need three holes: 1= return, 1= drain, 1= backup drain
Cleaning overflows: I can (when I take the hood off) reach down the overflow and scrape and siphon the crap out of the overflow area. I like ReefLogic's idea of using a turkey baster to keep it clean, but I can't really reach mine daily.
Dosing: Yep, if you use good reef salt, and keep up on your changes you probably will not need to dose for a long time, or perhaps never. Get good tests and watch the depletion rate.

 

[NWDiver]

Do look at using an auto-top off though, it makes life easier, and keeps your salinity perfect.

 

[IPisces]

Dont let the flooding comments scare you too much. I have my sump set up so that if the overflow does by chance clog up or I loose the siphon on one of my U tube overflows, there is not enough water in the return section of my sump to over flow the tank. That does mean though that the pump will run dry, but I am using Ehiem pumps and they are supposed to be able to run dry for a little while at least. Just so you know, the system can be set up so you can not have a flood.
You will want to set your return nozzle up so that when the return pump shuts off, it sucks air and does not reverse siphon. But you probably already knew that.

 

[Holidayz]

Hmm....2 expert mentioned 'herbie' at the same time, something I really have to look into! Thanks!! Wonder how much extra they'll charge me if going that way...ouch!

Sigh, no luck in finding a single place that I can pick up all my needed LR. Can't be lazy la, pick up some here and there.
Yeah, all advise points to just getting a simple start and I'll do that. Add an anemone when amonia and nitrite reads 0 and nitrate is quite low.
I don't know how long before the nitrate to reach a very low level as my experience in freshwater fish, that is not so important as long as it doesn't sky rocket and can easily be kept at resonable levels just by changing water. So, hopefully not too long, like to achieve that in a month or so.

Then very very slowly when the basic 3 are all ok, will start put more stuffs in and monitor the rest like Ca, Mg, alkalinity, Ph etc.
I think by then, when I have some figures, I then start worrying whether changing water with good salt will do the trick or needed calcium reactor and any other dosing.
Sounds ok?

O...I'm reviewing my sump, it has 3 baffles before the skimmer, 3 baffles before the return. That should mean if the flow from top stops, even the return pump is running, all it can pump up is the water in the return section? It might damage the pump but at least not over-running my tank? I'll try post a drawing after reading how to do so.

 

[Holidayz]

Dont let the flooding comments scare you too much. I have my sump set up so that if the overflow does by chance clog up or I loose the siphon on one of my U tube overflows, there is not enough water in the return section of my sump to over flow the tank. That does mean though that the pump will run dry, but I am using Ehiem pumps and they are supposed to be able to run dry for a little while at least. Just so you know, the system can be set up so you can not have a flood.
You will want to set your return nozzle up so that when the return pump shuts off, it sucks air and does not reverse siphon. But you probably already knew that.

Yeah, thanks. I think I read that, to prevent reverse siphon, drill a hole at the return nozzle slightly below the water line so it will suck up air when reverse siphon occurs and reached that level, is that right?

 

[DonW]

I think if your concerned about getting an anemone right away your already going to fast. Go back and do some basic water chemistry research before you even add water. Your nitrate theory is a bit off and nitrate is a serious issue if you plan on having fragile inverts like an anemone.

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