Nitrates, phosphates are 0, biofilm on LR

[quibrzif]

If this forum is not limited to Ca, Mg, alk additives, I have a problem and would appreciate help:

I have multiple nano tanks, but only in one of them, in high light tank, I have biofilm growing on rocks - bacterial, protozoan, microalgae, or all together - can't say. All colors: brown to black, red and green are present. Nitrates and phosphates are zero (API test kits), was 75g rated ASM Mini skimmer on 15g tank, a week ago upgraded to 250g rated Turboflotor 1000, this changed nothing. Weekly changed cup of activated carbon.

This tank contains sps, condy anemone, non-photosynthetic corals and fine filter feeders, and is fed several times a day. No significant detritus accumulation, because tank is bare bottom, and now even live rock is in the sump. All is observable and cleanable.

Flow is ~350g/hr for 15g tank. 23x tank volume per hr. 200 gph of them go through sump (Eheim 1250 return pump, 320gph, minus head loss).

The only thing that helps for a short time, is oxidizing surfaces by ChemiClean.

This is not transfers to other tanks, when inhabitants are moving. More or less permanent situation for more than year.

Now simplified situation: no more detritus accumulation or insufficient skimmer to blame.

Any ideas how to solve this problem?

Other tanks receive similar and higher feeding, but this has highest light, 110W. Sps grow very fast there, especially monti caps, so does condy anemone.

 

[chend2]

The high light itself may cause this. Are you using RO water? I had the problem until I switched. Also try a polyfilter.

 

[Boomer]

If this forum is not limited to Ca, Mg, alk additives

This is a chem fourm and is on all chem

You sound like you have crap loads of Cyano and have some real nutrient issue, despite zero PO4 and NO3-. At times this can mean nothing, as they can take it out of the water as fast as it enters. The other issue is these cyanobacteria can take organic phosphate out of the water that your kit can not test for. It may be you rock has adsorbed allot of phosphate also and they can pull it right out of that. Some very, very advanced reefer even have this issue. However, as Chend pointed out it may be the light and or its K also. Also, the faster corals grow the more waste products they put out. Or a combo of all these. There is not "real" fix accept to try one of them. But some, at last resort, just dump the ChemiClean into their reef tank, which often works well. But that is not a fix but a Band-Aide IMHO.

 

[quibrzif]

In shaded areas of this tank (under the corals) the surfaces are clean.
All other tanks with the same newly prepared water have no such problem.
It is not as much of red cyano, as brown diatoms (feeding includes Shellfish Diet with diatoms), something diatom-like but almost black, and green microalgae.

As I understand, the oversized skimmer (rated 250g on 15g tank) should clean water well enough for preventing cyano - or anything else - growth.
Tank always had triple amount of phosphate remover in the sump, it also was supposed to strip water from phosphates, so nothing will be left for microaldae and bacteria.

I can use liquid phosphate remover, likely Lanthanum based, if it helps.

Now, don't shoot me - if I could, I would - I'm using tap water and have to continue using it or shut all tanks, what I already started to do. Several other reefers used tap water too (believe me, I know all about benefits of RO water, but my wallet and joints don't ), with good results. For me corals are growing good, some were spawning and larvae was settled, and corals, that die for many others - are alive for much more prolonged periods for me.

Just puzzled. Apart from RO/DI water and going out of hobby, what else could be done? Already tried:
- increased skimming,
- increased amounts of phosphate remover and carbon,
- no detritus accumulation in the tank, and
- to prevent loading rock with phosphates, nitrates and clogging pores - rock is in the sump, after filtration. Still looking clean, out of the light.

The bulbs are changed every 6 months.

 

[Boomer]

Bulbs, meaning type of bulbs used may be the wrong kind and are accelerating cyano growth.

 

[quibrzif]

The bulbs are PC 10,000K.
Thanks, everyone! Will continue trying to find a solution, next will be using ozone. Antibiotics, as the last resort - who knows what is actually grows in the tank.

 

[MikeS]

I would strongly discourage the use of any type of antibiotics in a reef tank. I would also avoid the chemiclean as well. It's an oxidizer, and can rapidly deplete the tank of oxygen if overdosed or if nutrient level is sufficiantly high. Lots of horror stories about chemiclean induced tank crashes out there.

As stated above, a zero reading just means there isn't any in the water column, it's likely that its all bound up in the growth you are seeing. Another thing to note is that organisims like this tend to be proximity based, ie they grow on the surfaces closest to the abundance of the nutrients. So removing the P and N from the water column won't always do the trick, as much of it is probably coming from the LR.

In addition to whatever nasties may be in your tap water, my guess would be that you are also overfeeding a bit. Try cutting back on that and switching to RO water. In a tank as small as 15 gallons, you can immediately get away with using distilled water relatively cheaply, but I would get an RO filter at some point. I'm betting these two things will solve most of your problems.

MikeS

 

[roscoe]

I have to say one of my best investment in this hobby is a RO/DI unit. It is much cheaper than alot of the equipment we use to keep our tank happy.

 

[warforged]

Roscoe we have that crapy Tacoma water... you need a RO/DI just to drink it! ok kidding.
Kinda..it is nasty.

The only advise I have is the one you wont do... Steer away from tap water. Ro/DI units are on sale on the forums here form time to time. 80 bucks I last saw yesterday on a thread.

I still don't understand why it's too costly for yah. I don't know prices up north. I am just wondering. I pay 1dollar a gallon from a lFS for premix... and 50 cents a gallon for Ro/Di Water from "water to go" in Tacoma,Wa.

I think that you will have nothing but headaches and getting your hand wet more often than average because of "Tap water".

IF you do decide going with Ro/Di and leaving tap water ... Consider putting all your rocks in a bucket and scrubbing them ..and doing a 75% water change on the first water change you do with Ro/DI.... Punch all the nasties in the face in one swoop...(nitrates,nitrites,phosphates, and other bad stuff)

 

[NC2WA]

Mike,

Can the same statements you made against chemi-clean be said about chemi-pure??

I'm researching on whether I want to use chem-pure in lieu of carbon.

 

[Workaholic]

How is the tank doing? did you find a solution?

Tom