Not in FAQ's (I hope)

[BJTenn]

Really stupid question. When answering or commenting to someone, do you use the quote answer, quick answer or the other thing on the bottom left that I can't remember the name of.....

And, what is the number one way of keeping nitrates or nitrites, whatever, down. I don't have a sandbed and I don't have a big wet dry only the penguin (again, I know...). I do have a bed of approx 4-6 inches crushed coral. I was told to get sand to begin with, then no, no, no, get crushed coral so you can have an undergravel. Left that behind when I graduated to 75 from 29...
Try to do monthly 25% water changes.

Any suggestions, given my state of finances (none) and equipment?

 

[bradreef]

take the wheels off your penguin and just use the baskets for media and the fliter for flow. cc is ok if you dont have a reef. Your tank sounds like what the standard was 15 years ago. whoever is giving you info probably is not very current. a refugium can be a good way to reduce nitrates.

tell us more about you tank.

so far 75 gallon. penguin, cc substrate.
Is this ever going to be a reef?
The ideal setup would be a 75 gallon with a 20 gallon sump, protien skimmer,
75lbs of live rock (I prefer less as opposed to more), flow depends on your goal and so does sand.

 

[Krish]

When answering or commenting to someone, do you use the quote answer, quick answer or the other thing on the bottom left that I can't remember the name of.....

When I quote something like I just did you, I just click the quote tab and copy and paste the info in between the quote tabs which will make it look like this on your screen (minus the number 6 until you hit post reply) [QUOTE6] Hi BJTenn [/QUOTE6] and you don't have to go advanced to do that. You have the option to do that in the quick reply. HTH

 

[Rod Buehler]

the no.1 way is anaerobic bacteria. Anaerobic bacteria, will colonize deep within live rock, and better in a deep sand bed. but that sand bed must be set up properly Crushed coral is definately not the proper way.

The wheels on the penguin are creating aerobic bacteria which will compete (somewhat ) against the anaerobic bacteria that is in the live rock and a properly set up DSB.

I would recommend ditching the crushed coral and go bare bottom(or set up a good DSB) and also I would remove the bio wheels. Get a good skimmer and good flow. Strong water flow also plays a big role..

 

[Krish]

One thing I wanted to add to what was already mentioned was a 25% water change a month is not very much at all IMO. I would try maybe try doing 10-15% weekly as over long periods of time, the waste will accumulate and degrade water quality so it is better to do more frequent smaller water changes than to do 1 big one less frequently. Just a thought

 

[shallowreef]

I'm sorry but are you still running the undergravel filter? If so ditch it! I would also agree in changing out the crushed coral with sand and perhaps invest in a fluval (i don't know if i spelled that right) or a wet dry system. Hopefully by doing this you should eliminate your problems.

Nick

 

[BJTenn]

Ditched the UGF

Nick

Noooo, I ditched the undergravel when I graduated to the 75. It came with the magnums and penguin. I have other medium and filters in the magnum, but I understood the wheels on the penguin were for the wet/dry process.

I am going to get a real wet dry soon.

Can I make my sand bed in that and leave the crushed coral bed in the tank. Can you tell, I really don't want to tear this thing down again!!

Thanks all!

 

[BJTenn]

Will take wheels off

Thanks, will take those wheels off and check my piggy bank for wet/dry.

 

[Krish]

I am going to get a real wet dry soon.

DON'T DO IT!!!! (LOL) Wet/dry's are good at converting toxic ammonia to less toxic nitrite into even less toxic nitrate in a short period of time, but it ends there (same thing as what happens with a bio-wheel) So what you end up with is an accumilation of nitrates which can fuel nuicance algaes as well as kill corals etc. if not dealt with. As a result, people have switched from using wet/dry's and bio-wheels and reply on their live rock (and even deep sand beds) to perform most of the biological filtration functions as well as denitrification which will rid your tank of the un wanted high levels of nitrates as well as using efficient skimmers and good husbandry. In any event, if you are planning on just keeping fish and nothing more, wet/drys are good at handling pretty good sized bio-loads, but you'd still want to keep an eye on things as high levels of nitrates can affect fish aswell if they get too high. I was told this over and over as a newbie and my frustration finally ended with fighting nuicance algaes etc when I ditched the wet/dry and converted into a sump to run a skimmer and so forth. Just thought I'd throw that out there for you. If you want, you can start up another thread and get more feedback on whether you should run a wet/dry or not. You'll be surprised at how many people don't like them nor use them at all these days

 

[BJTenn]

What no wet/dry now??@*%!!

Just one little teeny question. What is the difference in a sump, a refugium, and a wet/dry? Just so I'll know which mistake I'm planning on making! :lol:

I am thinking I need the acrylic or some reasonable facsimile thereof, like the thing under the tank, that has like three stages with the bioballs, etc???

Oh, I almost forgot, I want corals also, not just FOWLR...

 

[Krish]

LOL...A wet/dry is the one with the bio-balls that are exposed to highly oxygenated water. You'll see them have drip trays above them to trickle water onto the bio-balls. A sump is basically another name for a tank/container or whatever you use to hold the equipment, bio-balls, water to be returned to the tank or whatever in. So in actuality, the sump is the raw tank that you use and you covert it into whatever application you want to use it in like a wet/dry application or a refugium which is simply just a place to grow a macro algae in, isolate troublesome fish in etc. So...You start out with a sump (the tank) and you make it into whatever you want it to be (whether a wet/dry, refugium or just as it to house a skimmer and other equipment) Hope I'm making sense and not repeating myself but I gotta run I'll check back here when I get home and see if I didn't confuse you

 

[BJTenn]

No, matter of fact, that cleared it up a little. Hope to talke to you later....pick that brain some more!

 

[Krish]

ROFL! I'm home now! I was dealing with my guys at work and trying to think and it didn't work to well

Here it is with a little more thought put into it

A sump can be basically described as the foundation. That's why a sump can be anything from an old tank, something custom built out of acrylic or even like I have seen many times before, rubbermaid containers. What are sumps used for?

(1) They are used in wet dry applications like here http://www.futurepets.com/images/j210/aca203002.jpg A wet/dry is basically what is sounds like. The bio-balls are never submerged so the are always exposed to water and air all the time as the water trickles over them. Great environment like I said before for aerobic bacteria to grow and do it's thing (fish poop, food rots, turns into toxic ammonia and the wet/dry quickly converts toxic ammonia to less toxic nitrite to even less toxic nitrate, but it ends there because there are no anaerobic zones in a wet/dry) Great for fish only tanks because it is said that they can tolerate like 60ppm of nitrates and do fine (I've had mine do great in over 100ppm! ) but you end up with an algae bloom of un-wanted algae!

(2) Sumps can be used to basically add volume to your system because the more water, the more stable things will be. Just think of dropping a cup of Instant Ocean salt into a 3 gallon tank and in a 200gal tank. Which one will be affected the most? So people just get "sumps" (a raw tank or whatever) to add volume to their system and then again, they use them to hide un-sightly equipment like skimmers, heaters, phosban reactors, probes etc so they all won't have to be sitting inside of the tank and then at the same time, use it to add flow to the tank because the water has to be re-circulated from the tank to the sump and then back up so people take advantage of the opportunity and use their sumps as a source of flow. Sometimes you will find baffles (or walls/partitions) in sumps and they are only put there to seperate some equipment from the others, help with breaking down micro-bubbles so they aren't returned to the tank etc. Here are a few examples of some sumps used as nothing more than I just described...

http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merc...ROD&Product_Code=PM-R30&Category_Code=Special

http://www.aquadirect.com/store/product.php?productid=679&cat=301&page=1

http://www.aquadirect.com/store/product.php?productid=461&cat=301&page=1


(3) And then there are the refugiums you spoke about which work basically in the same way as I described your basic sump in #2 does, but it has a section that is usually lit to promote growth of marco algaes like chaeto, caulerpa etc which help with nutrient export (binding up excess nitrates and phosphates). Some people even use them as a place to put troublesome fish or frags that aren't ready to be put in the main display yet and even live food for the main tank. You can have a sump set up as a stand alone refugium and nothing more or you can combine the two which is most popular these days with having a sump with a chamber for your skimmer, heater etc a chamber for your fuge and then a return chamber. Here are a few examples of refugium setups.

Hang on the tank fuge
http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merc...&Product_Code=CPR-AFPSL&Category_Code=Special

http://www.aquadirect.com/store/product.php?productid=674&cat=430&page=1

And here are tons of sump ideas where they are used for differnt applications you can look through

http://www.melevsreef.com/allmysumps.html


Also, here is a my sump for my cube I will use as an example. I use it to hold my phosban reactor, my skimmer, carbon bag, thermometer and to add extra water volume.




And here's what I had under my 75gal I took down. It held all the same things plus it had a chamber for my refugium which is the chamber with the light on it






How did that work for ya? Hopefully I helped some and didn't confuse you more(LOL) Wet/dry's would never really work for corals because corals like and need basically un-detectable levels of nitrates. With having something given the nickname "nitrate factory" won't work so well when it comes to corals

 

[sryder]

im confused..............

 

[Krish]

im confused..............

Go figure... There was a new section added here called the New to Reefkeeping forum. I know you've been a member since like forever, but you can still go there and check it out:lol: Hey shouldn't you be to work???

 

[sryder]

Go figure... There was a new section added here called the New to Reefkeeping forum. I know you've been a member since like forever, but you can still go there and check it out:lol: Hey shouldn't you be to work???

I am working I have been hired here to keep my eye on you.

 

[spongebob lover]

ohhh dood thank you Krish for making my reading even longer ... sheesh do we like to talk :lol: ..... just when i thought i was done now i have more to go.

 

[sryder]

your the only one that thought you were done gabs....:lol:

 

[spongebob lover]

im confused..............

LMBO!!!

your the only one that thought you were done gabs....

lol !!! yeah until Krish started giving the speech .... good one buddy.
but you should check some of your links because i can't open them :lol: .

ohh and you must be freaking awesome at hiding things because i can't find your carbon bag in there .

 

[sryder]

LMBO!!!



lol !!! yeah until Krish started giving the speech .... good one buddy.
but you should check some of your links because i can't open them :lol: .

ohh and you must be freaking awesome at hiding things because i can't find your carbon bag in there .

OH NO NOT THE SPEECH.........