Konadog
Member
Dave, the one I have (had) goes that low, remember, I'm a controls guy! Anyway, I may be the only one that has one that went that low. I'll check tomorrow.
o2manyfish - Skimmer Comparison
- Thread starter o2manyfish
- Start date
Help Support Reef Aquarium & Tank Building Forum:
Scooterman
Well-known member
WOW, I missed this one, I will read the thread thoroughly later today, I know this one can be a really great one to follow.
Anemone
New member
Dave,
A couple of thoughts -
You will have to be a little more precise in your feeding regimen. If you aren't, you could end up adding a couple pinches of food during one test, and none during another...
Also, since your system is outside, weather may play a role (not sure here) - If one test happens during one of our "indian summer" periods, and another during overcast conditions - will the presence of sun, causing more algal growth and nutrient uptake affect skimmer output? Second, how about wind? We get a pretty good dust content when the wind kicks up, and that dust will end up in the tank (greater skimmer output?). How about rain - dilution issues aside, I'd be more concerned about particulate matter either increasing skimmate production, or oils decreasing it.
I think the skimmer test is a fun idea, but there can be some very weird variables that may (or may not) affect the outcome....
Kevin
A couple of thoughts -
You will have to be a little more precise in your feeding regimen. If you aren't, you could end up adding a couple pinches of food during one test, and none during another...
Also, since your system is outside, weather may play a role (not sure here) - If one test happens during one of our "indian summer" periods, and another during overcast conditions - will the presence of sun, causing more algal growth and nutrient uptake affect skimmer output? Second, how about wind? We get a pretty good dust content when the wind kicks up, and that dust will end up in the tank (greater skimmer output?). How about rain - dilution issues aside, I'd be more concerned about particulate matter either increasing skimmate production, or oils decreasing it.
I think the skimmer test is a fun idea, but there can be some very weird variables that may (or may not) affect the outcome....
Kevin
Anemone
New member
Oh yeah, something else that just happened to me. Something in my garage tank spawned (no idea what). Just happened to check on the tank after lights out and noticed the water looked a little hazy - then noticed that the skimmer (a Turboflotor 1000 multi, btw) was producing a bunch of foam (much more than normal). The next day when I checked the water was clear and there was no evidence that anything had happened (other than the increased amount of skimmate).
For the purposes of this test, I'd guess either you (or Madison, or some other volunteer) would need to make daily (or even several times a day) checks on the tank, count the inhabitants and make sure that nothing has died (fishwise), nothing has spawned, nothing has gone-sexual, etc...
Just more random thoughts...
Kevin
For the purposes of this test, I'd guess either you (or Madison, or some other volunteer) would need to make daily (or even several times a day) checks on the tank, count the inhabitants and make sure that nothing has died (fishwise), nothing has spawned, nothing has gone-sexual, etc...
Just more random thoughts...
Kevin
o2manyfish
o2manyfish
Kevin,
Given the mass of water, unless we get fire season, not much else affect the system.
Rain -- If we get an inch of rain that's about 15g of water with the surface area. On a cold day like yesterday I still evaporated more than that amount - So dilution not an issue.
As for barometric, an humidity differences, that is something that affects skimmers inside and outside. By running skimmers in groupings at a same time - Each group runs under identical conditions.
Go to run to a meeting will respond to your other points later.
Nice to see you taking part in this. Hope you can stop by to tinker.
Dave B
Given the mass of water, unless we get fire season, not much else affect the system.
Rain -- If we get an inch of rain that's about 15g of water with the surface area. On a cold day like yesterday I still evaporated more than that amount - So dilution not an issue.
As for barometric, an humidity differences, that is something that affects skimmers inside and outside. By running skimmers in groupings at a same time - Each group runs under identical conditions.
Go to run to a meeting will respond to your other points later.
Nice to see you taking part in this. Hope you can stop by to tinker.
Dave B
Anemone
New member
Oh yeah, Are you going to have a "resting period" for the tank between tests - a set period of time when the tank is without skimming? It seems like the first pairing/grouping will have the benefit of more nutrients in the tank than any following pairings since the later pairings will be placed in an essentially "overskimmed" tank to start with.
Sorry about the multiple posts, but I'm doing this between things at work as I think of them...maybe I should wait until I get home and ask all my questions at once.
Kevin
Sorry about the multiple posts, but I'm doing this between things at work as I think of them...maybe I should wait until I get home and ask all my questions at once.
Kevin
Last edited:
Anemone
New member
o2manyfish said:
I'm not so sure. A small increase in the particulate content in the air (and we get much more than a small increase when the wind blows) could make one "set" of findings much different than the pairings that come before/after.
Kevin
- Joined
- Sep 6, 2004
- Messages
- 109
In that case, maybe it would be a good idea to post the weather specs for each day?
OUinLA
Well-known member
Hi Kevin, about the "resting period". I thought about this too but I don't know how much that is needed. Since we are working under the throught that the more powerful/stronger skimmer will out compete the other, then it may not matter that the tank has been "overskimmed". I think the outcome of the test won't be how much sludge is produced but more about which skimmer is still skimming.
If we run 3 skimmers at a time I don't think we will be overskimming. Most of the skimmers are rated for around the same sized tank (300 gallon average?) so even by running 3 we are still probably too small for his system.
If we run 3 skimmers at a time I don't think we will be overskimming. Most of the skimmers are rated for around the same sized tank (300 gallon average?) so even by running 3 we are still probably too small for his system.
thetedinator
Apolemichthys xanthopunct
Round robin testing helps eliminate some of the issue/question about the impact of dust, rain, etc.
o2manyfish
o2manyfish
Hey Folks,
Solved 1 problem today -- Spent some money and bought a really nice Watt Meter. Digital - Accurate to a 1/10 of a watt.
Will post some photos later today. Also allows you to enter a utility rate and will tell you the cost per year to operate....
Anemone, as far as the particulate matter entering the system, the surface area that would collect the dust / particles is roughly about 1% of the surface of the system.
Also if I am not mistaken, protein skimming is a function of organic matter. Particulate matter, unless the system was filled with dirt should not be affected.
I can say from experience, that with the exception of the Fires last year, in the past 2 years during all the different wind storms, I have never noticed the system to get dirtier.
I guess if people think this is an issue, when the skimmers are competing I could run a filter sock (changed daily) to remove particulate matter. I personally don't see this as an issue, but will happily leave this open to public opinion.
After speaking with Andy at My Reef Creations, who is going to be supplying an MRC 4, and Chuck is going to let us use his MRC 3, and Madison having a conversation with RH Farley, I am going to modify the skimmer tank.
I am going to locate the overflow in the dead center of the tank, and have the incoming water connected to a spray bar. This way the skimmers are all getting the same quality of water in intake.
One question that came up with Andy, was about whether the return/effluent from the skimmers should return to the testing tank, or to a different sump..... And then what do we do with skimmers that we cannot plumb to a secondary tank (Bubble King, Euro Reef, etc).
What do people think about where the return water should go ?
Dave B
Solved 1 problem today -- Spent some money and bought a really nice Watt Meter. Digital - Accurate to a 1/10 of a watt.
Will post some photos later today. Also allows you to enter a utility rate and will tell you the cost per year to operate....
Anemone, as far as the particulate matter entering the system, the surface area that would collect the dust / particles is roughly about 1% of the surface of the system.
Also if I am not mistaken, protein skimming is a function of organic matter. Particulate matter, unless the system was filled with dirt should not be affected.
I can say from experience, that with the exception of the Fires last year, in the past 2 years during all the different wind storms, I have never noticed the system to get dirtier.
I guess if people think this is an issue, when the skimmers are competing I could run a filter sock (changed daily) to remove particulate matter. I personally don't see this as an issue, but will happily leave this open to public opinion.
After speaking with Andy at My Reef Creations, who is going to be supplying an MRC 4, and Chuck is going to let us use his MRC 3, and Madison having a conversation with RH Farley, I am going to modify the skimmer tank.
I am going to locate the overflow in the dead center of the tank, and have the incoming water connected to a spray bar. This way the skimmers are all getting the same quality of water in intake.
One question that came up with Andy, was about whether the return/effluent from the skimmers should return to the testing tank, or to a different sump..... And then what do we do with skimmers that we cannot plumb to a secondary tank (Bubble King, Euro Reef, etc).
What do people think about where the return water should go ?
Dave B
o2manyfish
o2manyfish
Techno Update
Okay,
Got some new toys to add....
So the efficieny of the skimmers can now be easily measured.....
Dave B
Okay,
Got some new toys to add....
So the efficieny of the skimmers can now be easily measured.....
Dave B
Ger
Member
Nice toy, Dave. Well I guess you are really going through with this....and I thought you put on this whole thing just to get a bunch of free skimmers for your system.
o2manyfish
o2manyfish
Okay Folks.....
For anyone that might have challenged my ability to be fair with this comparison....
The Deltec Eheim, which is said to consume only 40w of power is WRONG !!!
58w going to the Deltec... Hey Doug what's the story man, someone in Germany have a problem converting metric to english....
I blame German engineers for this since the Bubble Queen is pulling down 62watts.
Madison was over tonight. When he saw the reading of the watt meter, he was worried it may be slightly off.
So then I pull out my trusty Radio Shack Digital Multimeter, with 10A max Ammeter.
I took a Rio Hyperflow pump and removed the impeller -- Basically creating an electric magnet, that should be a stable non-fluctuating load.
Using the Radio Shack meter we got a reading of 0.63a at 122v and using the Watt's UP watt meter we got a reading of 0.66a @ 122v - Both tests done on the same outlet within 90 sec of each other. So worse case the watt meter may be off my 0.03a - However, we don't know which is the correct one and which one is wrong - Cause we only have 2 to test. But either way the watt meter, is accurate and stable for what we are working on.... And we have proven that German's can't calculate power consumption.
Dave B
PS - My Dolphin Ampmaster 3000K was drawing 208 watts. But it also sounds like it needs a vinegar bath - It was grinding a lil.
And a Helios 54w 47" T5 Daylight bulb - Only used 37w.....
Go figure
For anyone that might have challenged my ability to be fair with this comparison....
The Deltec Eheim, which is said to consume only 40w of power is WRONG !!!
58w going to the Deltec... Hey Doug what's the story man, someone in Germany have a problem converting metric to english....
I blame German engineers for this since the Bubble Queen is pulling down 62watts.
Madison was over tonight. When he saw the reading of the watt meter, he was worried it may be slightly off.
So then I pull out my trusty Radio Shack Digital Multimeter, with 10A max Ammeter.
I took a Rio Hyperflow pump and removed the impeller -- Basically creating an electric magnet, that should be a stable non-fluctuating load.
Using the Radio Shack meter we got a reading of 0.63a at 122v and using the Watt's UP watt meter we got a reading of 0.66a @ 122v - Both tests done on the same outlet within 90 sec of each other. So worse case the watt meter may be off my 0.03a - However, we don't know which is the correct one and which one is wrong - Cause we only have 2 to test. But either way the watt meter, is accurate and stable for what we are working on.... And we have proven that German's can't calculate power consumption.
Dave B
PS - My Dolphin Ampmaster 3000K was drawing 208 watts. But it also sounds like it needs a vinegar bath - It was grinding a lil.
And a Helios 54w 47" T5 Daylight bulb - Only used 37w.....
Go figure
OUinLA
Well-known member
Heinz, Dave doesn't have the new Deltec yet. It's still the first one
Scooterman
Well-known member
One possible answer s, that 40W is optimal running conditions, if it has any build-up that would cause more resistance the pump impeller would make the motor work harder, thus consuming more power, increasing heat also. ]o2manyfish said:
Just a thought, usually UL listed devices are fairly close to their listed rating. I once gave a review on OceanRunner pumps, because of the low power consumption for the GPH rating, come to find out it did consume listed power but didn't produce the GPH listed lol, I could go out and buy a flow meter but I can't justify the expense.
Similar threads
