Ocean Treasures Microreefs

[yuran22]

My first attempt at saltwater aquaria was with this tank:
http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11111178&whse=&topnav=&browse=

It has a 5 gal capacity, so I only populated it with 2 small clownfish
and a small yellow tang (total fish lenth approx 4.5 inches). It is about
28 inches tall, and has a surface diameter of about 16 inches, with an
acrylic cap, and a cornice on top of that (so there is virtually no air
flow to the water surface). It has a filter rated for a 10 gal tank (Marineland Duetto DJ100) which is located inside the top of the reef structure, along with a heater.

After about 1 week of operation, the tang had died and the clownfish (tank raised) were already looking distressed. The tank water was murky and had an odor to it. Even after a water change, I had trouble keeping the water clear and odor-free (the water was RO, all daily water condition measurements checked out OK). Eventually the clownfish died as well. Toward the end, they appeared to be breathing rapidly.

I realize there are any number of things that may have resulted in the demise of these fish, but I was specifically wondering about the oxygenation of my water, and the effectiveness of the filter. The bottom of the tank always looked the murkiest (farthest away from the filter, so I question if the water was being properly circulated). With the tight seal on the top, and the small water surface area, I was also suspicious that there was not an adequate air exchange taking place, resulting in poor oxygenation of the water. Any chance that the basic design of this tank is just not well suited for sustaining fish, or is it more likely that some other mistake I made resulted in these tank conditions?

Thanks very much for any insights anyone might provide.

Nick

 

[mmkeeper]

Did you check the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels? Saltwater tanks take several weeks to cycle.

 

[rudeanduncouth]

Sounds like a lack of adequate flow to me.

 

[cwby416]

First off Welcome to Reef Frontiers!!

Right off the bat I see lots of problems with your set up that could be the reason the fish died:

Non of the fish you mentioned should be in this tank, especialy the tang. A yellow tang needs a MINIMUM of 55gallons to stay alive, and 75 to be happy. Not sure what clowns you had, but none would be rated for a 5 gallon, let alone two of them.

How long did you let the tank cycle??

(the water was RO, all daily water condition measurements checked out OK).

please explain what measurements you are refering to and what "OK" is.....

~Randy~

 

[4251cpd]

Welcome, sorry for your losses and I've been doing a little how-to for newbies and nano's:
http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14008

 

[yuran22]

Thank you kindly for the welcome and your responses.

I thought I had done all my homework but clearly I had not. Based on your questions, I'm sad to say I do not believe I cycled the tank properly. I began with the 2 small clownfish (1.5" aquacultured ocellaris) and cycled for 1 week before introducing the 2" tang. I did daily measurements of pH, alkalinity, nitrates and nitrites using dip strips, and readings were always in the "good" or "acceptable" ranges. Should I have been testing specifically for ammonia during this period?

The tang was clearly not an appopriate fish for this aquarium, and I'm not sure the clownfish were either. Could anyone recommend a suitable quantity/species for a 5 gal marine tank?

Thank you again for taking the time to help.

 

[cwby416]

where are you located?

as far as fish for you 5 gallon, you can go to liveaquaria.com and find a "nano fish" section. most will say a minimum of 10 gallon, but you can put most in a 5 gallon as well. Only ONE fish though. you could add a shrimp too, they are fun to watch

do you have any live rock in the tank?
do you plan to put any corals in it?

~Randy~

 

[NaH2O]

Welcome to Reef Frontiers!!!

Sorry about the losses you have experienced. A five gallon tank is pretty small, and most of the fish I can think of are for a minimum of 10 gallon tanks. I'll look through one of my books to see if there is anything smaller. One problem with such a small volume of water is the water quality can degrade rapidly if not looked after. The add for the tank is kind-of misleading, because they show a blue hippo tang swimming in the tank. Do you know how your salinity was, temperature, etc? The nano thread that 4251cpd linked is a great and entertaining read...you should check it out. There are some pico tanks (really small) out there, but I believe most people use them to feature a few small inverts/corals.

I would recommend some good test kits and test for a specific range of ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates for your initial cycle.

Its waaaaaay past my bedtime, so if I'm babbling, I apologize ahead of time .

 

[cwby416]

oh yeah almost forgot.....If your going to get serious with this hobby, you will need to upgrade your testing methods. If you ask most people here, they will only recomend Salifert brand test kits. they are expensive, but WELL WORTH IT. if your not willing to spend that money, I would at least get the redsea marine kit... ITs a liquid test kit, that is fairly accurate. runs anywhere from $33-$55.

~Randy~

 

[liveforphysics]

IMO that setup needs some mods to be made functional.

First, cut some type of hole into the acrilic cover on top, and likely stick a small fan in there or similar. In a tank with small surface area VS totaly water volume, it becomes much more important to have lots of air moving past the surface. Its equally important to have good surface water movement.

Doing a 5gal tank is really going to be a lot more of a challenge than doing larger tanks. My best advice would be to incorporate a sump/fuge to sit below the tank somewhere. This could enable you to keep water quality high with a couple of fish in the display, otherwise, you are going to be doomed to a frequent water change schedual, or only get to keep 1-2 tiny fish.

 

[Krish]

Welcome to RF! Sorry to hear about all the problems already...I know how it feels because I've been there as well before. Cycling the tank properly would have been your best option and would have probably saved your fish especially the clowns because clowns are pretty hardy fish. The problem with not cycling a tank thoroughly, is you have an accumulation of ammonia, nitrite and nitrate that are all toxic to the fish that all need to be properly taken care of. I'd try to see if I could bet a bit more flow in there, maybe some good surface aggitation for gas exchange to take place as well as venting the top of the tank so that it could happen properly. Also, are you using any LR or sand? You will need some form of biological filtration in there and I am curious as to how you are accomplishing it with your set up now. In any event, if space is an issue, maybe you can get a nano cube that comes basically ready to go right out of the box, from lighting, flow, skimmers these days etc which I'm sure will make things a lot easier for you. Hope you get it all sorted out and if you have any questions, no matter how simple they may seem to you, don't be afraid to ask. No questions are too simple or too small to be asked here. We all love to help one another

 

[Wink]

It could be a great tank for dwarf seahorses. I've got about 20 of them in a 5 gallon hex.

 

[yuran22]

Thank you again for your responses. You are all generous with your time and knowledge.

My tank does in fact have an integrated pump/filter with a chamber for bio filtration and a carbon cartridge. I positioned it to pull water from the tank and expel the filtered water over the top of the reef structure onto the water surface. The suggestion to drill holes into the acrylic top for better air flow sounds reasonable to me. I do indeed have live sand but it is not clear to me what the benefits of this are. I do not have a live rock, and I don't think there is enough floor space to support coral. I will most definitely buy the more sophisticated test kit that was recommended. I was always skeptical of the dip strips anyway. My plan is to reintroduce 1 small fish (from the "suitable for nanoreef" list) to the tank and allow for adequate cycling before doing anything else. It sounds like no more than 2 small fish is the most I could support. Yes, the literature for the tank is very misleading. Various models show blue hippo tangs, ocellaris clownfish, yellow tangs, and other fish that really aren't suited for a 5 gal tank.

 

[Krish]

Well, if you buy live sand, it comes already seeded with beneficial bacteria which will help with all the biological functions. Live rock is also full of all types of beneficial bacteria and can aid in denitrification. You see, when you feed your fish or they poop or whatever the case may be, if not removed from the tank, the waste will start to decay and breakdown into ammonia which is most toxic to anything in your tank. Another bacteria is responsible for breaking down that toxic ammonia into less toxic nitrite (which also is very toxic to marine inhabitants, but not as much as ammonia) Then another bacteria is responsible for breaking down that nitrite and converting it to an even less toxic form called nitrate. Fish can handle quite a bit of nitrates and do very well under these conditions that consists of nitrates. I think it is somewhere along the lines of 60ppm. So this is where cycling comes in. You want your tanks to drop off all traces of ammonia and nitrite. Once all are gone, you have basically cycled your tank. Without live rock or a deep sand bed or even a denitrator, you will have no way of ridding your tank of nitrates by denitrification. The only way you would be able to get rid of nitrates is by doing regular water changes which will not completely rid your tank of them, but keep them under control. Also, if you set up a refugium to keep a macro algae in, they will bind up the nitrates and phosphates in your tank which can be removed when you export it by trimming back the macro algae. The only thing really bad about nitrates is if they get too high can eventually affect the fish. I've had nitrates off the chart before and my fish still survived so there is no telling how much of it will really affect the fish. Now when it comes to coral they are more sensitive towards nitrates and therefore it is best to shoot for 0 nitrates. In any event, by introducing live rock and or live sand, you will provide your tank with some beneficial bacteria which will help you with all these processes. A lot of people use the old frozen shrimp method to cycle their tank so as to not harm any fish with ammonia and nitrite which are present during cycling. They simply throw a piece of a frozen shrimp in the tank and allow it to sit there and rott and allow the whole process to take place while testing the water every couple of days. Once ammonia and nitrite no longer show up on your test results, then you can safely add your fish. The more fish you add the more waste will be created which means the more bacteria population your tank will have to produce. That's why adding fish is done slowly as to allow these bacterial colonies to multiply as the bio-load increases. I cycled my tank with fish and they are still alive in the tank doing well. It is not necessary to have LR and live sand, but it will help speed up the cycling process as well as benefit you tons by providing you with all the beneficial bacteria you will need. Hope that helped

 

[yuran22]

It does indeed help. Thank you very much.

 

[NaH2O]

It won't take much to jump start a cycle in a 5 gallon tank. You can get smaller pieces of live rock, or even some rock rubble in there to help with filtration. As stated, frequent water changes will help keep water chemistry in check. Temperature needs to be monitored closely, as well, because it doesn't take much to increase/decrease the temps of a small volume of water. You will also want to be diligent about topping off your water daily.

It could be a great tank for dwarf seahorses. I've got about 20 of them in a 5 gallon hex.

Vicky - I'd love to see pics! A local reefer set-up a seahorse tank recently, and I thought it was so awesome. I'd love to see the dwarf seahorses.

 

[bkenn77]

Wow, a 5g tank. That's a tough one, good luck.

 

[4251cpd]

bk77, like the conversion you did on your fuge.

 

[bkenn77]

4251 cpd, Thx, after talking to Kevin at the LFS I converted the old trickle filter. I have just modified it again. The 1st chamber drained at the bottom and I want it to hold more water. So I welded a piece to plug the bottom hole and used my dremel to cut a top overflow. I'll set it up tonight. After seeing the post that krish started on filters (and all the picts. people sent in), it gave me ideas of how to do it better. Later, Brian.