mountian72
Member
is this normal ? when curing live rock to get green algae in patches on my rock ? or is there something i should do its all over my crab help!!!!!!!!!!!!
oh no its algae!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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cdeakle
Well-known member
Its just hair algae, relax brutha! Nuisance algae is an ongoing problem with our hobby felt by newbies and seasoned vets alike. No worries....
There are alot of things that helps control nuisance algae such as this:
1) Good skimmer
2) RO/DI water (0tds)
3) Don't overfeed the tank
4) check for phosphates/silicates , use phosban or similar
5) Husbandry, some fish and inverts eat hair algae...
6) Make sure its not time to change your bulbs
There is probably something I'm forgeting but its time to go out and party, TGIF!!!!!!
There are alot of things that helps control nuisance algae such as this:
1) Good skimmer
2) RO/DI water (0tds)
3) Don't overfeed the tank
4) check for phosphates/silicates , use phosban or similar
5) Husbandry, some fish and inverts eat hair algae...
6) Make sure its not time to change your bulbs
There is probably something I'm forgeting but its time to go out and party, TGIF!!!!!!
Ray Pollett
Well-known member
I'm sure this will get me in trouble again, but I do things and see things differently.
cdeakle said:
mountian72
Member
thanks ray and feel free to pm me any time you have any advice i to like the natural metheds best i ran fresh water and found that there is always a simple natural way to deal with any probs oh yeah and on the sump ideas i think your right it seems to me thatits really only to hide stuff in and that seems like alot to risk to hide things
cdeakle
Well-known member
Because I have never seen tap water that had any of the following:
0 TDS
no silicates
no phosphates
and not to mention alot of other nasties. If you have water that has a fair amount of silicates/phosphates/metals... then you will have alot worse algae problems then if you had used RO or RO/DI water to begin with.
Also, isn't providing the best for our friends one of our top priorities and responsibilities as there caretakers? I would rather shell out some bucks to knock out both birds with one stone.
If you are talking about books by respected authors in our hobby and experts in our hobby( Scott W. Michael , Eric H. Borneman, Julian Sprung...) then "If it looks like a duck, quacks like a...." then you might just be overfeeding your tank and hence the good looking hair algae...
I also prefer the natural way over chemical.
An example though. If someone were to us an RO/DI filter to remove unwanted elements from our tap water such as phosphates for water changes. Then one would not have to resort to using chemicals such as phosban to remove the unwanted elements, in this case phosphates, from our tank which we put in to begin with.
There are alot of "chemicals" out there that are very useful to our hobby without any negative side effects. Basicly there are good chemicals and one should not be afraid to use them if necessary.
Ray Pollett
Well-known member
cdeakle said:
I keep forgeting cdeakle, anyone who does it different than you is wrong, has a tremendous amount of algae and is creul to fish. Please forgive this ignorant old timer.
Ray
NaH2O
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2004
- Messages
- 8,568
I never recommend the use of tap water, especially in the area of the country that I live. On any given day the TDS reading from my tap water is almost 500 (aside from the copper present) - I would not have a tank at all, but an algae scrubber in a 120 gallon box. Ray, I've read your posts enough to know that you like algae in your tank. Most hobbyists, however, do not. We have closed systems, not open reefs, so if algae gets out of control...it most certainly would lead to problematic proportions. I don't want to debate your points because they have already been debated on the board. You do things a lot differently than I ever would, and that is fine - as long as it works for you. I think it is rare that people like nuisance algae growing in their tank...although if harvested it would be a nice nutrient export. I don't want this thread to turn into my way is better than your way.
Mountain, you titled this thread in a way that makes me think you are not thrilled about having hair algae in your system, so I'll take a stab at helping you to eliminate it. If your tank is newly cycled you will experience algae. I'm not sure how old your system is. The list cdeakle presented in the initial post is one that I would follow. I will add that you can blast the areas of hair growth with a turkey baster or powerhead...you'll see some detritus break free from within the hair....the detritus sitting in the algae actually helps to continue its growth. Also, you can take the crab out and manually remove the algae to clean it off. As for a sump...it not only serves to hide things, but to increase water volume which leads to a more stable environment. I have extra live rock I keep in my sump to provide more biological filtration, as well...also any hitchhikers that are more suited for the sump (i.e. misbehave in main tank) go there to live.
Mountain, you titled this thread in a way that makes me think you are not thrilled about having hair algae in your system, so I'll take a stab at helping you to eliminate it. If your tank is newly cycled you will experience algae. I'm not sure how old your system is. The list cdeakle presented in the initial post is one that I would follow. I will add that you can blast the areas of hair growth with a turkey baster or powerhead...you'll see some detritus break free from within the hair....the detritus sitting in the algae actually helps to continue its growth. Also, you can take the crab out and manually remove the algae to clean it off. As for a sump...it not only serves to hide things, but to increase water volume which leads to a more stable environment. I have extra live rock I keep in my sump to provide more biological filtration, as well...also any hitchhikers that are more suited for the sump (i.e. misbehave in main tank) go there to live.
DonW
R.I.P.
There is no right or wrong here. Its sounds like NTS. Decide if you like the geen stuff or want a sterile tank. If you want sterile you need to stop feeding the algae (RODI, phosban, no flake food). Dripping kalk will precip some of the phos and is inexpensive.
There is nothing natural about putting fish in a glass box in your living room. Decide what you want the end results to be, then make decisions.
Really sound like you need to get past the NTS.
Don
There is nothing natural about putting fish in a glass box in your living room. Decide what you want the end results to be, then make decisions.
Really sound like you need to get past the NTS.
Don
cdeakle
Well-known member
Ray:
I was not stating that you were wrong. I in fact agreed with you on a few points. I in no way was trying to flame you are start an argument. In this hobby there is never a right and wrong way for many situations but rather many different options that can work and just depends on what works best for the individual and there situation.
However that being said, you should have just posted and responded with your input for the original posters question and NOT pick apart my response and in red type nonetheless. I really did not appreciate that.
Since you did kind of pick apart my response and quoted my response a few times I felt that I should constructivley respond so that the original poster could get a feeling on why I suggested to him what I did.
Your response directed at me was very unprofessional and not very helpful. Enough said. I definately do not want this to continue further but if you feel you need to, pm me so this does not effect the board.
I was not stating that you were wrong. I in fact agreed with you on a few points. I in no way was trying to flame you are start an argument. In this hobby there is never a right and wrong way for many situations but rather many different options that can work and just depends on what works best for the individual and there situation.
However that being said, you should have just posted and responded with your input for the original posters question and NOT pick apart my response and in red type nonetheless. I really did not appreciate that.
Since you did kind of pick apart my response and quoted my response a few times I felt that I should constructivley respond so that the original poster could get a feeling on why I suggested to him what I did.
Your response directed at me was very unprofessional and not very helpful. Enough said. I definately do not want this to continue further but if you feel you need to, pm me so this does not effect the board.
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Ray Pollett
Well-known member
cdeakle said:
If you had read the post you would have seen I clearly stated that you can see there are different ways to do a tank. The actual quote " As you can see there are different ways and approaches to running tanks. " I was not picking your method apart, just showing as state the differences.
Ray
Curtswearing
Mantisfreak
We are not replicating the ocean....the ocean is an open system with currents, tides, upwellings, etc. However, we do our best.
As a result, it becomes important to limit out inputs of nutrients and to export them as best as we can. Because our tanks are closed systems we are stuck with the fact that most items we add to our tanks.....stays in our tanks.
Your tank is fairly new and algae at this stage of the game is quite normal. It's eating dead bacteria. If you want the algae to stay after the initial cycle, it is your choice. I guess it's all a matter of preference. I personally don't want to see any algae in my display tank whatsoever.
I do want to correct a misconception though.
This happens all over the world wherever farm runoff or deforestation puts excess NPK into the water.
I think it is wise to replicate the oligotrophic conditions of a reef. I rinse my food with RO/DI water, I use chemical filtration, I run a protein skimmer, I use mechanical filtration.
The presence of algae means that Eutrophication is occuring. This unfortunately means the reef is in the process of dieing too.
If you want to replicate a dieing reef, that's cool. Different strokes for different folks......I choose to replicate a thriving reef.
As a result, it becomes important to limit out inputs of nutrients and to export them as best as we can. Because our tanks are closed systems we are stuck with the fact that most items we add to our tanks.....stays in our tanks.
Your tank is fairly new and algae at this stage of the game is quite normal. It's eating dead bacteria. If you want the algae to stay after the initial cycle, it is your choice. I guess it's all a matter of preference. I personally don't want to see any algae in my display tank whatsoever.
I do want to correct a misconception though.
Sorry...this info is quite wrong. Algae has a difficult time growing on a reef due to a lack of nutrients. Reefs tend to be oligotrophic (i.e. poor in nutrients and high in Oxygen). The only time the algae is growing rapidly is after a reef has undergone Eutrophication (where the nutrients are too high to be processed anymore).
This happens all over the world wherever farm runoff or deforestation puts excess NPK into the water.
I think it is wise to replicate the oligotrophic conditions of a reef. I rinse my food with RO/DI water, I use chemical filtration, I run a protein skimmer, I use mechanical filtration.
The presence of algae means that Eutrophication is occuring. This unfortunately means the reef is in the process of dieing too.
If you want to replicate a dieing reef, that's cool. Different strokes for different folks......I choose to replicate a thriving reef.
Man Ray some of this stuff is just to off the wall my friend.
To combact algae problems you need to attack its food source, take its food and it will die, simple stuff. Mountian as your curing your LR in your tank thier is a lot of die off and decay. It is the primary source of food for the agale right now. You shouldnt do anything at this time until that curing process is done. Once the die off stops the food source will be gone also, this should stop the algae.
Mike
Mike
No as Curt mentioned its not, unless you are talking the microscopic kind. Algae is also a direct competitor of corals. If you have algae you have nutrient problems, simple as that.
Almost all municipalities use Phosphate and sand to remove calcium scaling from pipes, the result is a nutrient rich water. And as Chris mentioned a host of other things.
I guess it might be amusing, how I am not sure, but to each his own. Over feeding a tank is asking for excess nutrient problems unless you have some dynamic way of removing them. The result is once again an Algae problem. Some folks (Ray I imagine) like tanks with algae in them. Most dont.
Ray in all yur posts I cant seem to fnd a natural meathod. Perhaps you could expand on this.
The above method only removes tiny ammounts of the problem, about 10% max. All fish and inverts do is to take a small amount for themselves and poop out the 90% of what they just ate, so small particles but the same mass. Also algae have been deeling with herbavoirs for eons and simple broadcast seeds and spores upon attack. A good method the make the problem worse.
To combact algae problems you need to attack its food source, take its food and it will die, simple stuff. Mountian as your curing your LR in your tank thier is a lot of die off and decay. It is the primary source of food for the agale right now. You shouldnt do anything at this time until that curing process is done. Once the die off stops the food source will be gone also, this should stop the algae.
Mike
Mike
cdeakle
Well-known member
The only risk a person can have with having a sump is improperly plumbing it and having a leak. Is this disastorous? Yes! Is it easily avoidable? Yes!
If you have a properly plumbed and maintained sump you would have a better chance winning the lottery then having a problem with your sump. The benefits of having a sump far outweigh any possible risk.
NaH20 sure knows her stuff. You rock!
I would also like to add a few more benefits though. You can also have a sump that doubles as a refugium as well. Great place to have macro algae for nutrient export to help control the nuisance algae and a place to cultivate all kinds of criiters like copepods, amphipods, bristle worms, snails, micro stars and the like. Sometimes I find my refugium more entertaining to look at then mytank.
Also having a sump provides you with a great place to add in your additives and supplements so that they get mixed up before they return to your main tank and also a great place to add carbon and other water quality applications...
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Ray Pollett
Well-known member
Try http://mason.gmu.edu/~dkelso/Coral_Reefs.htm
http://www.greenreefbelize.com/reefbriefs/briefs19.html
http://www.com.univ-mrs.fr/IRD/atollpol/ecorecat/ukalgfor.htm
"Natural Reef Aquariums" John Tullock page 134
Good by
Ray
http://www.greenreefbelize.com/reefbriefs/briefs19.html
http://www.com.univ-mrs.fr/IRD/atollpol/ecorecat/ukalgfor.htm
"Natural Reef Aquariums" John Tullock page 134
Good by
Ray
Hi Ray. From your links
http://mason.gmu.edu/~dkelso/Coral_Reefs.htm:
http://www.greenreefbelize.com/reefbriefs/briefs19.html
Ray on a natural reef nutrients are so poor that algae is kept in natural check, and for the most part dont play a role. When the nutrients raise (simular to what happens in our reefs) the envirment is now skewed to the growth of algae and the result is the death of a reef. In our reef tanks we are always ong to have a enviroment skewed towards the liking of algae, so introducing it is simply asking it to take it over.
Here is a link to a hawain reef that had some algae introduced to it, the algae won and the reef coral wise is dead
http://www.turtles.org/honohist.htm
Ray thier is a relationship between algae/seagrasses/mangroves for sure, but the locations are seperate from each other. Most all seaweed/mangroves/algaes are located closer to shores in in bays. In these areas you have good nutrient build up from run off and so on. These areas act as nurseries for many fish and shellfish species which later migrate to reefs. they also slow the progression of sand and sediment that would other wise kill coral reefs if allowed to cover them. Coral reefs in turn serve as wave breaks that allow for this enviroment not to be broken up and destroyed by waves. On the reef itself nutrients are very poor and scarse. most nutrients are taken up by the corals themselves the balanced is locked up in very tight nutrient cycling. Nutrients such as nitrogen and phosphate are limiting. the lack of these nutrients on the wild reef does not allow the growth of such algaes. Corraline and other calcerious algeas will grow as they are not limited by these nutrients, and have adapted to require the same building blocks as most corals have. You are mixing up ecosystems and looking at them as a whole instead of seeing them for interlinked systems but far apart, and far apart for a reason.
Mike
http://mason.gmu.edu/~dkelso/Coral_Reefs.htm:
The rest of the article deals with producers of DOM from all surrounding areas of a reef.
http://www.greenreefbelize.com/reefbriefs/briefs19.html
Yes corraline and calcerious algae such as hamedia are present, but not the macro algaes you refer to.
Ray on a natural reef nutrients are so poor that algae is kept in natural check, and for the most part dont play a role. When the nutrients raise (simular to what happens in our reefs) the envirment is now skewed to the growth of algae and the result is the death of a reef. In our reef tanks we are always ong to have a enviroment skewed towards the liking of algae, so introducing it is simply asking it to take it over.
Here is a link to a hawain reef that had some algae introduced to it, the algae won and the reef coral wise is dead
http://www.turtles.org/honohist.htm
Ray thier is a relationship between algae/seagrasses/mangroves for sure, but the locations are seperate from each other. Most all seaweed/mangroves/algaes are located closer to shores in in bays. In these areas you have good nutrient build up from run off and so on. These areas act as nurseries for many fish and shellfish species which later migrate to reefs. they also slow the progression of sand and sediment that would other wise kill coral reefs if allowed to cover them. Coral reefs in turn serve as wave breaks that allow for this enviroment not to be broken up and destroyed by waves. On the reef itself nutrients are very poor and scarse. most nutrients are taken up by the corals themselves the balanced is locked up in very tight nutrient cycling. Nutrients such as nitrogen and phosphate are limiting. the lack of these nutrients on the wild reef does not allow the growth of such algaes. Corraline and other calcerious algeas will grow as they are not limited by these nutrients, and have adapted to require the same building blocks as most corals have. You are mixing up ecosystems and looking at them as a whole instead of seeing them for interlinked systems but far apart, and far apart for a reason.
Mike
cdeakle
Well-known member
Mojoreef you are the man. Unfortunately though you are preaching to the choir so to speak.
It's obvious to me that a certain individual on this board isn't trying to have a healthy debate but rather is giving out false information and simply trying to win the loosing side of an argument.
I hope that members on here that are reading this thread gain the good knowledge that you and others are putting out and simply ignore the obvious false and very incorrect and inaccurate information that a certain member is putting out.
As Curt said so perfectly:
It's obvious to me that a certain individual on this board isn't trying to have a healthy debate but rather is giving out false information and simply trying to win the loosing side of an argument.
I hope that members on here that are reading this thread gain the good knowledge that you and others are putting out and simply ignore the obvious false and very incorrect and inaccurate information that a certain member is putting out.
As Curt said so perfectly:
DonW
R.I.P.
Jees guy's youve been bantering this thread for a week. The only person that is going to loose is mountian72.
Hopefully he can wade through all the techno babble.
Be nice or I'll have to tell your Mommy.
Don:razz:
Hopefully he can wade through all the techno babble.
Be nice or I'll have to tell your Mommy.
Don:razz:
cdeakle
Well-known member
:lol:
Good point.....
mountian72
Member
man i didnt mean to start trouble sorry im just worried about the life on my reef my tank is only 5 weeks old so it is probably nts but to add to what ray said about husbandry i put 3 damsels in and only feed them once a day my alage is all but gone i also took my powerhead and aimed it right at my rock so in short blowing the rock,not over feeding,and alge eating fish i have won the algae battle i think you all were right and together you solved my algae probs thanks everyone
