Phosphate/Nitrate limited aquarium

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jordan2871

New member
Joined
Oct 21, 2005
Messages
3
Location
High Point, NC
Symptoms:

Brown Acros, STN, Cyano

Solutions to date: Exchanged over 250 gallons of water over a two month period in my 120G minireef. Siphoned out cyano at every change. Now exchanging 5 gallons of water every night.

Problem still exists.
Any ideas?
 
Welcome to RF Jordan2871! Glad you have decided to join us! Have you been doing your water changes using ro/di water? Also, what salt mix are you using and what are your waters parameters like?
 
lol krish !!
welcome to reef comedy :D !!
now that i've said that hmm if you could post a little bit more about your tank, like how many fishes, how many times do you feed, water parameters, how old are your light bulbs etc
i think that would help a little bit more :)
 
Do you have a sand bed? How deep? How old? Is it used sand?
What type and amount of rock. How is it arranged?
How much flow in the tank?
Do you have bioballs or any bio media?
What is the tds, nitrate and phosphate reading of your make up water before adding salt and after adding salt before putting it in the tank?
What do you feed and how much?
More info will give you a much more usefull answer.
Welcome to Reef Frontiers and I am glad you are here.
Steve
 
My bad. I always assume people can read my mind!! haha!

Tank: 120G inwall Modified Berlin w/30G sump. Moderately deep sand bed 3"-3.5" of mixed oolitic and standard grain aragonite. Lighting is new 2 x 250W 10K Sunburst. Skimming is performed by an oversized Precision Marine CV626 venturi type skimmer. I run a calcium reactor, dose Iodine once per week and dose Kalk slurry once per week. I run carbon passively for about one week per month then remove. Return pump is a Mag 36 (I wanted the ability to add an additional biofilter/sump). I have nice strong random currents with this setup. I have about 100 lbs. of LR and a nice open design.

I have exchanged about 250 gallons of water over the past 2 months under different schedules to see if there is difference in making fewer massive changes or daily small changes. I am changing 5 gallons daily now and always siphon out the cyano and detritus and silt/mulm from the rock work.

Parameters are as follows: Nitrate = not measurable, PO4 = not measurable, Ca = 380, dKH = 9, PH = 8.1, temp = 80

Fish load: Small-med Powder Brown tang, Small-med yellow tang, six line wrasse, pymgy angel, maroon clown
Moderately stock mixed garden reef. SPS, LPS, Leathers, two clams. All corals except one or two are two+ years old.

System was transferred into the wall in May. Most livestock, sand, rock has been together for about 5 years.

I feed every other day and small quant of mysis and nori. Occasionally I switch foods for variety.

There you have it. Any ideas on probelm resolution. Sulfur reactor, KNO3, lactose, add a biofilter, aerobic sand bed??????????
 
I see a couple of things that may be causing your problems. First,

Most livestock, sand, rock has been together for about 5 years.

If you were using tap water for this time period the sand and rock would have absorbed phosphate and other undesirable components which it is now releasing back into the water column now that you are using RO/DI water for your mix.

The other thing is that you have Leather corals mixed with SPS and LPS corals. Some species will not tolerate the terpenes that can be released by some species of Leathers. As the SPS coral begins to die/decay it releases nutrients into the water column that can fuel cyano blooms.

A test you can do is remove a piece of live rock and swish it in a bucket of freshly made salt water. If the water turns gray or you see lots of detritus coming out it could be the source of your nutrients. You could also test the water in the bucket after rinsing the rock thoroughly to see it you are able to detect any nitrate or phosphate.

None of the above statements are meant to be absolutes only suggestions as to what may have happened or some possible actions to take.

Regards,
Kevin
 
Just to add a bit to Kevens post. The only time you are going to get a reading of inorganic P is when you tank is totally saturated and can not bind up any biologically. With the presence of algae and well fertalized acros you probibly are having various organisims binding it up as it is being released. To test for source it is best to localised testing in order to find the highest level. So do a P and N test from the pore water of the sand, the water up against the rock, filters and so on. On a side note Coralife salt is pretty high in its mix with P (I will attach a bar graph) so that in its self may be an issure.

f111.jpg


Mike
 
kevin, are you saying you shouldnt mix lps with leathers?
 
Yes that is correct. Leather corals especially members of the Sinularia family produce strong compounds called terpenes that have been shown to stunt the growth or even kill both SPS and LPS corals.

Regards,
Kevin
 
kevin, what is considered to be in the sinularia family.
 
that figures. i have a few of those and am having troubles with my lps. all of my water parameters are good and have been stumped as to why my lps are having troubles. this may be the problem. now what to remove is the other question? is there any way to test for these types of toxins? steve
 
Hello Steve,
There is no off the shelf test but if you run carbon it will help. Be sure to change it every 10-15 days. Most people just trade in the corals for more compatible ones. Others have 2 tanks.

Regards,
Kevin
 
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