phosphate removal from rocks

[reedman]

A little background to start before I lay down the challenge:

I am not a noob...I have had the contents of this tank for well over 6 years and have practiced good husbandry with good results. For most of that time I ran a 75 gallon tank that was great with very little algae. I have moved to a new cube tank that is 80 gallons with another 10 in the sump. I run a lifereef VS-24 skimmer with a mesh modded QO3000 pump. The flow thru the sump is slow (mag 7 return pump split to feed the phosban reactor) to increase the exchange time in the skimmer and maintain high quality water. I run carbon for a week and remove it for 2 weeks. I run kent phosphate sponge in a phosban reactor for a few days then remove and/or put in new. All lights are less than 4 months old (3 24" VHO actinic and 1 250W MH). flow is handled with a vortech MP40w on various settings to vary the flow plus a Koralia 3 across the back to keep detritus out of there.

So.....now the challenge. I have hair algae growing resulting from measurable PO4. I have been doing weekly 15% water changes to dilute the PO4 and it has kept it under control, but there is obviously enough in the tank to fuel the growth of the algae. I have removed one of the rocks and scrubbed it but the algae is starting to return. I feed blender mush of clams, mussels, scallops, krill and selco. I also run a calcium reactor to maintain Ca at 400-420.

parameters:
salinity 1.025-1.026
PH 8.0-8.2
Alk 8-9 dKH
Ca 400-420
temp 77-80 F
PO4 -> higher than I want as it is measureable

Water is from RO/DI unit producing 0 tds and 0 PO4

As best I can tell the PO4 is coming from the food (not a whole lot I can do here) and the rocks. I think the rocks have become saturated and are leaching PO4 back into the tank.

So my question is: How can I draw out and remove the PO4 from the rocks????

 

[returnofsid]

I've heard that liquid phosphate eliminators work well...such as Salifert Phosphate Eliminator. Supposed to bind up the phosphate and allow it to be collected by the skimmer.

As for feeding, are you rinsing foods in RO/DI water before feeding? I'd suggest that to drive off any phosphates in the food.

 

[DonW]

Try removing one rock at a time and soaking in fresh IO in a bucket with a pump. Add lanthanum chloride to the water and change it every few days. Dont use the lanthanum chloride in your tank. Its worth a shot.

Don

 

[reedman]

Don, do you have a local source for lanthanum chloride? Is this something I can just pick up from a pool supply place?

 

[Scooterman]

last time I removed LR & scrubbed it with a brush in old tank water, then rinsed in new & reinserted, a few months later had to do it again but from then is cleared up. Staying on top of WC's & sometimes doing bigger ones helps.
Worse case to the bleaching process but I think in most cases not necessary. In time If you stay on it I think it will clear up.
No mention of MG, what is your MG level?

 

[DonW]

Don, do you have a local source for lanthanum chloride? Is this something I can just pick up from a pool supply place?

Give blue line a call, I dont see it for sale anymore at any fish type stores. Maybe the old man will stop by and come up with something better. For now this is all I can think to do with the rock.
It will look like carbonate precip so blast it real good with a power head.

Don

 

[reedman]

No mention of MG, what is your MG level?

not measuring Mg right now since I don't dose that. Once I get the algae fixed up I may look into the Mg, but I do not see it as being as critical as the rest of the parameters. JMHO

 

[reedman]

Give blue line a call, I dont see it for sale anymore at any fish type stores. Maybe the old man will stop by and come up with something better. For now this is all I can think to do with the rock.
It will look like carbonate precip so blast it real good with a power head.

Don

Thanks Don...I will check into this.

 

[returnofsid]

Don, I don't know much about it, but why wouldn't something like Salifert's Phosphate Eliminator work, using it the same way, with the RO/DI water soak?

 

[reedman]

Don,

I shot Blue line an email to see if they have anyone local, but found that Cole Palmer also has it. Is this the same thing? I would think one lanthanum chloride would be the same as another lanthanum chloride.
http://www.coleparmer.com/catalog/product_view.asp?sku=8835016

 

[Curtswearing]

muriatic acid in RO/DI water works wonders. The downside of this method is you will have a little less rock than you started with too.

 

[reedman]

Man Curt....you don't mess around do you? Not sure I am there yet. I love to use muriatic acid to clean things, but I would prefer to maintain some life in my rock.

muriatic acid in RO/DI water works wonders. The downside of this method is you will have a little less rock than you started with too.

 

[preons]

I had the same problem as you. I removed my sand bed and the problem went away in days.

 

[reedman]

I had the same problem as you. I removed my sand bed and the problem went away in days.

My sand has been cleaned before it was put it so it can't be that. Good thought though.

 

[trido]

clams, mussels, scallops, krill

Are you rinsing all of these thoroughly before the making the actual food?

FWIW, when I bought my clams and prawns fresh from the grocery store rather than buying them from the LFS. I never had algea, I had only 8 trochus in my 120 for over six months. Since switching over to tthe frozen krill etc. I cant seem to keep enough snails in my tank.
Ill be going back to the fresh when I use the supply I currently have.

 

[Curtswearing]

Man Curt....you don't mess around do you? Not sure I am there yet. I love to use muriatic acid to clean things, but I would prefer to maintain some life in my rock.

LOL

However, my rock has been dried out, cleaned, and re-seeded many times before. I had MTS (Multiple Tank Syndrome).

 

[Scooterman]

I had MTS (Multiple Tank Syndrome).

That must be a sickness we all get at one time or another!:lol:

 

[reedman]

Are you rinsing all of these thoroughly before the making the actual food?

I did rinse them a little before they went into the food processor. I have a question here though. So I know they spray PO4 as a preservative on seafood, but I thought that was non-live foods. I only buy live food to make my mush (except the krill) so I didn't think they had much PO4 to begin with. Is this a misconception on my part? How would you get PO4 on a clam that is in a tank of water? if it is in the meat through ingestion then rinsing does nothing.

The scallops you are spot on and I understand how they get the PO4....they were rinsed

 

[DonW]

Don, I don't know much about it, but why wouldn't something like Salifert's Phosphate Eliminator work, using it the same way, with the RO/DI water soak?

Might, I just dont know anything about it. Never seen it before. If its just lanthanum chloride it would work the same. I wouldnt pay for the name its easy to find good chemical that dont have the aquarium trad mark up.

Don

 

[DonW]

The nice thing about muratic acid is it opens pores that have been closed by coraline growth. All sorts of dead stuff falls out when you do the muratic acid bath.

Don