phosphate remover results.

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I would Just read reedmans post and start at #1 and later on if you want to go dsb you can after you have read up and made an informed decision. And in the mean time other problems will be resolved or at least much better :)
Paul
 
update, this morning, the tank looks different, some of the red slime is falling off, reveling green under neath, also looks like my group of mushrooms are biting the dust, they kinda look bad and wrinkly, any way dont know what this all means....
 
mushrooms are pretty tough corals. I would just decide to either remove the substrate all together or clean it real good. Either step will help a lot with water quality. If you go to a DSB I would do as you talked about with the CC in the panty hose to seed the bed. You have beneficial bacteria in your CC bed that would get a DSB started.

I think you just have a lot of detritus caught up in the CC bed you currently have and it is rotting which is fouling the water. The fouling of the water is causing your corals to deteriorate. Improve the water quality and everything will come into alignment.
 
can you tell me what sand is recomended, and how deep, for a 48gal corner tank 25# live rock,and any steps to switching to dsp, i know to have plenty of makup water, a place for the live rock to stay in, plenty of old towls
 
Most recommend about 3-6" deep for a functional DSB. I ran 200# of pure carribean aragonite in my 75 gallon tank and it worked great. You'd have to give the tanks floor dimensions to calculate how much sand you need.

A sugar grain size sand is what used to be recommended. I haven't run a dsb in some time, so I will let someone else answer to that. I know if you can find a sand call "southdown" at your local home depot or lowes that will work for the lowest cost. Otherwise the shipping gets expensive.
 
other than cc or dsb, do i have any other options, i would like mostly corals, and a few fish maybe most of the tanks i have seen on here dont look like dsb...
 
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It depends on what type of corals you want to keep. Most people who want SPS are choosing bare bottom (BB) or shallow sand bed (SSB). Then they vacuum out the SSB on a regular basis.

A lot of people who keep softies run CC, BB, SSB, or DSB. Since you have softies so far, you are in pretty good shape no matter what you choose. Just make sure that if you keep CC or SSB, you vacuum often. If you go the DSB route, just understand that they don't last forever like they used to say. At a certain point, they will spit phosphates back into your system just like the rotting detritus in your CC is doing right now. The phosphates won't harm your softies long term like they will to SPS. However, as you've noted, most people don't like cyanobacteria, hair algae, etc.
 
You have gotten good advice now, and a path to follow. dsb are effective but have drawbacks, I have had a dsb that worked but I removed it due to the undesirable aspects connected to it. the crushed coral and or shell are not recommended as they are dirt traps and when you vacuum you remove a lot of flora/fauna not that there is much there anyway.you can produce a good and effective sandbed with as little as 2" of aragonite and it is attractive also. this substrate is favorable to worms and all flora/fauna, bacteria production. if it was my decision I would set up a filter to help clean the water and start to remove the crushed coral. removing it all at once will prob crash your tank, but the advantage would be that you can get on with the refurbishing a lot sooner. keep your skimmers running,
keep the filters clean, do not be concerned about the critters they will be ok, keep the corals and rock blown off during the excavation. save about 5 pounds of the cc for seeding the new sand bed, tying up about 1 1/2 cups in web bags and laying on the new bed as you suggest is an excellent way to go. if you have some prize corals you can move them to a tank or bucket with some light, heat and water movement till you finish with the reconstruction. I am going to go out on a limb here and suggest you do not employ a dsb. if you like your present rock setup take a few pics so you can put it back the way it was. do not give up on the shrooms they are tough coral. I would say THE PHOS REMOVER YOU ARE USING IS CAUSING THE REACTION if you are going to redo the tank (and that is a sound plan) then discontinue the remover. the sooner you get started the sooner the whole thing will be what it should be. your present substrate is the problem.
 
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thanks for the addvice, iam not sure how i will approch the task,does anyone have a step by step, maybe something like this, Get 2 larges tub--big enough to hold all the rock comfortably, about 1/4 of the water in one, another 1/4 of the water and the fish in the second. Home Depot, WalMart, Lowes, Target--all have heavy duty rubbermaid tubs for less than $10 that will work just fine for temporary use.

Drain water into both tubs--less in the one for the rock. Remove everything, then topoff the rock tank so everything stays covered. Put a towel or sheet over the tub with the fish to prevent jumpers.

Remove all the crushed coral (a clean dust pan works very well). Sort through as you pull it out for snails and worms. Keep the top layer of CC--put it in nylon bags to help seed the new sand bed.

Add the sand, and any base rock. Put a large plate on the sand, and start pouring new water into the tank. The plate will prevent the sand from being too stirred up. Get enough water in to turn on the heater--about half. Start adding the live rock back in, top off. Bring up to temp. Return livestock to the tank. Stash the nylon bags in the tank for a few weeks, removing incrementally as the sand bed develops. any thoughts?
 
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Hey looks good, my 2 cents, it would be a good idea to place heater with fish. a gradual drop in temp ok for coral, coral should have some water movement the fish also if you can, otherwise use air pump for movement. pre wet your new sand with saltwater.keep a light on the coral in the tub if you can. I would keep as much of the old water as possible. your old water will do fine, if it gets "dirty" run it thru a well rinsed Turkish towel to remove detritus as you add it back to the tank. do not discard your cc, rather place it in a tub with old water and an air stone and leave it for a few weeks this way you will be able to collect your critters from it as they become visible, this will save you precious time sorting as it is removed. if there is obvious life on the rock you will not be able to put it back until the cycle is close to over, no way will you be able to return the fish until the nitrogen cycle is complete. (you are aware that the tank must recycle?) when you add the fish do it over a matter of days so as not to upset the bio load too much. the rock can go in over 2 hr intervals the corals after the fish are settled in and the ammonia/nitrite is zero. when you put the cc in packages try to get a netting with larger spaces than nylon. some nice stuff is made for wedding veils in a fabric store.. the other option is to remove it slowly over the period of days ( as I posted earlier on when you take out cc you can put in wet arag using a little plastic strip fence to keep them from blending. with a hang on filter you can remove a lot of junk in the water while you do the work. remember to keep some bio's added thru out the project.
 
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A primary concern will be maintaining Ph in the tubs, air feeds raise Ph. when replacing coral, fish you will want very close parameters between tank and tubs. it is also possible to shock the live rock to the point that it becomes ineffective for a while. match temp, Ph, sg and alk I hope this is step by step enough to help you decide and get started.
 
Also! feel free to ask, if you see or encounter a problem get your puter going. and ask, ask, ask
 
use care when removing the cc as it can scratch the glass if you plan on going in bare hand, don't, buy a few pairs of those cheap rubber gloves. bristle worm stings hurt as do cuts from the cc. infection is easy to come by from a salt tank.
 
rugie said:
if you plan on going in bare hand, don't, buy a few pairs of those cheap rubber gloves. bristle worm stings hurt as do cuts from the cc. infection is easy to come by from a salt tank.
Click to expand...

Oh Boy is this ever true. Heed the warning. I have thick skin, but the bristles are like playing with fiberglass. Not terribly pleasant.
 
Like I've said before...You are going to be just fine. You are getting some really great advice here, some of which I'm learning as I follow. Reed and rugie seem to know alot about the subject and I'm sure you will get back up and running smoothly very soon. Just remember to take things slow as to not make any mistakes and have any regrets. It's definately worth it...

Good luck my friend...
 
well things are better i think i see alot more green showing through, may and try and save whats in their for now, btw did some cks today no,20 no2,0 kh, 185, ph, 8.2, sg 0.23 ammonia,0....
 
well good news that you made a decision, if you made it then it is the correct one.
 
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