Pinched Mantle
- Thread starter NaH2O
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Maxx
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I have two blood shrimp in my 58 gallon tank. I did add them after I got the clams, but before they started showing signs of PM.
Yesterday I changed the water in my 20 gallon Q-tank. I think one of the clams had spawned in the tank as the water was suddenly cloudy and kinda unhealthy looking. When i say changed the water, I mean a 100% change.
While I was at it, I decided to go hypo-saline in addition to the metronidazole treatments. The salinity is currently at 1.015 by refractometer.
All water introduced, (which is how I add metronidazole...mix it in the water thoroughly preventing it from clumping up and not dissolving properly) will be RO/Di water...this should further lower the salinity down some.
Currently, neither clam has been showing signs of PM for last 3 days. I think I have enough metronidazole to last for another 3 days. I will attempt to keep the clams in a hypo-saline environment for another week following the last metronidazole treatment in an effort to eradicate this damn protozoa.
Both of my clams have "browned out", but I'm confidant they will color right back up when placed in the main tank again.
Chris&Barb...how long was it after the last Metronidazole treatment that you noticed the PM returning?
Nick
Yesterday I changed the water in my 20 gallon Q-tank. I think one of the clams had spawned in the tank as the water was suddenly cloudy and kinda unhealthy looking. When i say changed the water, I mean a 100% change.
While I was at it, I decided to go hypo-saline in addition to the metronidazole treatments. The salinity is currently at 1.015 by refractometer.
All water introduced, (which is how I add metronidazole...mix it in the water thoroughly preventing it from clumping up and not dissolving properly) will be RO/Di water...this should further lower the salinity down some.
Currently, neither clam has been showing signs of PM for last 3 days. I think I have enough metronidazole to last for another 3 days. I will attempt to keep the clams in a hypo-saline environment for another week following the last metronidazole treatment in an effort to eradicate this damn protozoa.
Both of my clams have "browned out", but I'm confidant they will color right back up when placed in the main tank again.
Chris&Barb...how long was it after the last Metronidazole treatment that you noticed the PM returning?
Nick
chris&barb
Reef-Geeks
Nick it was the next day that i started to see 1-crocea and 1-maxima just starting to curl in a small spot but the next day both were curling a little more along with another maxima so i just started the treatment again
NaH2O
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Frustration
Well - here is my update.
About 10 days or so ago, I decided to put the larger crocea back into the tank. It was looking good in QT....but the washing out of color had me concerned. I was also curious as to what would happen if placed back into the tank after 21/2 weeks (I think that's how long it was treated)...I'll have to look back at the thread. A few concerns I had were: 1. if the tank had protozoans....is it free of them 2. the smaller crocea was still symptomatic in QT. Is it possible with a tank full of metronidazole that the protozoan would be able to travel to the larger clam not showing any symptoms? 3. would the larger crocea still have an infection even though it looks fine.
Well, the coloration returned quickly after being removed from the metronidazole treatment and getting back to its spot in the tank. It did look like it pinched up a bit (this clam never really pinched as much as curled), but I attributed this to the flow in my tank. A few days after being back in the tank, I noticed the slime coming again. A week later I thought the clam might actually be fine....except the slime. This morning the clam looked great (minus the sliming).....I checked the clam in QT, and it looks good, too. The QT had a 100% water change....I ran out of metronidazole about 4 days ago. I began to consider moving the clam back to the main tank.....it isn't curled or pinched, but still had some slime. When I checked the main tank a little bit ago, the larger crocea is showing a tiny bit of curling. The thing that sucks....my metronidazole still isn't here. I tossed around doing the hyposalinity treatment like Maxx, but I want to see if it will work first. The hyposalinity idea came about from earlier in the thread....Illusion posted about his PM going away after his tank dropped in salinity for a week. When this thread first started, I didn't have lighting/MH set-up where I would feel comfortable having the clams QT for a week. Now that I do, I may give it a go.
What is the most frustrating to me of this whole thing....I don't feel like I will be able to keep clams because as long as I have these 2 croceas, I could spread it to other clams. Also, if these clams don't make it....I don't know that I would spend the money on a new clam to see if the protozoan is still present in the tank.
Another question I have, is whether or not the protozoan can become resistant to the metronidazole treatment.
Well - here is my update.
About 10 days or so ago, I decided to put the larger crocea back into the tank. It was looking good in QT....but the washing out of color had me concerned. I was also curious as to what would happen if placed back into the tank after 21/2 weeks (I think that's how long it was treated)...I'll have to look back at the thread. A few concerns I had were: 1. if the tank had protozoans....is it free of them 2. the smaller crocea was still symptomatic in QT. Is it possible with a tank full of metronidazole that the protozoan would be able to travel to the larger clam not showing any symptoms? 3. would the larger crocea still have an infection even though it looks fine.
Well, the coloration returned quickly after being removed from the metronidazole treatment and getting back to its spot in the tank. It did look like it pinched up a bit (this clam never really pinched as much as curled), but I attributed this to the flow in my tank. A few days after being back in the tank, I noticed the slime coming again. A week later I thought the clam might actually be fine....except the slime. This morning the clam looked great (minus the sliming).....I checked the clam in QT, and it looks good, too. The QT had a 100% water change....I ran out of metronidazole about 4 days ago. I began to consider moving the clam back to the main tank.....it isn't curled or pinched, but still had some slime. When I checked the main tank a little bit ago, the larger crocea is showing a tiny bit of curling. The thing that sucks....my metronidazole still isn't here. I tossed around doing the hyposalinity treatment like Maxx, but I want to see if it will work first. The hyposalinity idea came about from earlier in the thread....Illusion posted about his PM going away after his tank dropped in salinity for a week. When this thread first started, I didn't have lighting/MH set-up where I would feel comfortable having the clams QT for a week. Now that I do, I may give it a go.
What is the most frustrating to me of this whole thing....I don't feel like I will be able to keep clams because as long as I have these 2 croceas, I could spread it to other clams. Also, if these clams don't make it....I don't know that I would spend the money on a new clam to see if the protozoan is still present in the tank.
Another question I have, is whether or not the protozoan can become resistant to the metronidazole treatment.
I just wanted to make note.. My hyposalinity wasnt planned but was my entire Sps system... I lost Half my corals and 1 fish but the clams made it just fine... I will look and see if I can find the Exact Sg my tank got down to.. I will post back in a Few... it seemed to be fairly safe with the Clams as they seemed to not be affected at all my it...
James
James
Ok found it...
"My Salinity fell from 35ppt to 20ppt over the period of a week some how."
This was a Pretty sudden drop... I figured out how it all happened the next day after I got back from my vacation and REalized my floor was soaked... WEnt from 35ppt on Sunday and Monday afternoon was topped off with 30g Of FW which lowered the Sg to 20ppt... By Friday when I got home Half my SPS were RTNd but the clams looked good...
"My Salinity fell from 35ppt to 20ppt over the period of a week some how."
This was a Pretty sudden drop... I figured out how it all happened the next day after I got back from my vacation and REalized my floor was soaked... WEnt from 35ppt on Sunday and Monday afternoon was topped off with 30g Of FW which lowered the Sg to 20ppt... By Friday when I got home Half my SPS were RTNd but the clams looked good...
NaH2O
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Thanks James! I don't know whether or not I will do the hyposalinity. I have put these guys through so much over the past couple of months. The good thing is they have survived everything so far, and I feel they would make it through a hyposalinity QT. I would like to see if Maxx has good results or anyone else that is attempting this.
Out of curiosity - what have been the general symptoms of everyone's clams? I think most of us could pick a clam out that has pinched mantle after caring so closely with them. For my clams, I see sliming first, then curling of the mantle....pinching seemed to be the last symptom (for the smaller one). I am wondering if everyone experiences the same, or do you only see pinching, or only curling?
Out of curiosity - what have been the general symptoms of everyone's clams? I think most of us could pick a clam out that has pinched mantle after caring so closely with them. For my clams, I see sliming first, then curling of the mantle....pinching seemed to be the last symptom (for the smaller one). I am wondering if everyone experiences the same, or do you only see pinching, or only curling?
Maxx
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I only noticed the curling and snotting/sliming...never saw pinching.
I dosed the last of the metronidazole tonight...I have been keeping the water hyposaline, (approximately 1.015 via refractometer). All top off water has been straight RO/Di with metronidazole mixed into it.
Neither clam is showing any signs of PM nor are they producing any more slime. I havent seen any signs of PM in the past 7 days. Hopefully they have kicked this protozaon and it hasnt been living in my tank waiting for them to return.
I honestly dont think this protozan "works" like that...if it did, PM is something we'd have heard ALOT more about in the last couple of years than we did...
Both clams look like complete crap right now, colorwise....best way to describe them would be brown with hints of blue or green...When I put them in the main tank again they will need to be acclimated to the dual 250 watt 10K HQI's, but I'm sure they will color right back up again...
I will take pics of them once they go back in the main tank...I will post "Before and After" pics so everyone can see how they look. I'm sure that some of the color change is due to being under a single 175 watt bulb as opposed to twhat they were accustomed to in the main tank.
Nick
I dosed the last of the metronidazole tonight...I have been keeping the water hyposaline, (approximately 1.015 via refractometer). All top off water has been straight RO/Di with metronidazole mixed into it.
Neither clam is showing any signs of PM nor are they producing any more slime. I havent seen any signs of PM in the past 7 days. Hopefully they have kicked this protozaon and it hasnt been living in my tank waiting for them to return.
I honestly dont think this protozan "works" like that...if it did, PM is something we'd have heard ALOT more about in the last couple of years than we did...
Both clams look like complete crap right now, colorwise....best way to describe them would be brown with hints of blue or green...When I put them in the main tank again they will need to be acclimated to the dual 250 watt 10K HQI's, but I'm sure they will color right back up again...
I will take pics of them once they go back in the main tank...I will post "Before and After" pics so everyone can see how they look. I'm sure that some of the color change is due to being under a single 175 watt bulb as opposed to twhat they were accustomed to in the main tank.
Nick
roy
Active member
Are yall doing anything to keep up the calcium and alkalinity levels in the Q/Hosiptal tank? I just got my new pendant and ballast in the other day, have the metro...just waiting on the DE Bulb I ordered...Im going to use the same light system over the Q/Hosiptal tank as I do my display, spending the biger bucks for a q tank light system might make me quarteen more oftennow lol...Hopefully this ordeal will be over with soon.....LOL Barry has insisted on torturing me with his half off shipping sales and excelent selection of ultra maxs! And I could not order with the tank still being infected in all lol..... :badgrin:
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NaH2O
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Roy - I didn't really worry about the calcium and alk in the QT (I know I'm bad). I tried to have good levels in the water change water, but I wasn't down there testing all the time.
Nick - my coloration was the same....brown with hints of green/blue. The larger crocea colored up within a few days of being out of the metronidazole (I didn't need to light acclimate it, however). The larger crocea is sliming pretty good this morning. I think I'm going to bring the smaller one up to the main tank today if it looks like it did yesterday afternoon. Based on the slime I'd say the larger clam still has it.
Nick - my coloration was the same....brown with hints of green/blue. The larger crocea colored up within a few days of being out of the metronidazole (I didn't need to light acclimate it, however). The larger crocea is sliming pretty good this morning. I think I'm going to bring the smaller one up to the main tank today if it looks like it did yesterday afternoon. Based on the slime I'd say the larger clam still has it.
NaH2O
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I placed the remaining clam back in the main tank yesterday afternoon. I'll try and get a picture of them both later on. It is amazing at how much the colors are washed out. I thought it was bad before, but when I compared it to the clam already in the tank (which regained its color quickly), I was astonished.
NaH2O
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Here is the picture I took today. You can see from the photo that the larger clam has colored up again, and is not gaping as badly as before treatment. The smaller clam on the right is obviously washed out in coloration. The tang was happy to have it back in the tank, as it had a bit of algae growing....the tang took care of that quickly.....the clam thought it was under attack and stayed closed up for a bit. Everytime it thought it was safe to open back up, the tang came back to pick at its shell 
.
Here's the pic (OH....I'm happy about the algae finally dieing back, as well).
.Here's the pic (OH....I'm happy about the algae finally dieing back, as well).
NaH2O
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You can't really tell from the picture, but the clam does appear to have a slight curl in the mantle at the very back right. The curl hasn't increased since I first noticed it (and it may be just damage??). Also, in the photo you can see the mantle on the left (second fold down from the top) - where the mantle kind of sticks out further than the rest. This resembles a slight pinch to me from the side, but this clam never really pinched before. I think it may have pinched in the QT when I started treatment, but it didn't really pinch in the main tank. The smaller one would pinch after the mantle curled for a bit. I hope this makes sense. I'm keeping my fingers, toes, and eyes crossed that things don't progress.
Scooterman
Well-known member
They are looking great Nikki, seems like you've done a great job saving them.
Travis
SPS Obsessed
Good job Nikki. Thanks for keeping us updated on every detail of your treatment.
