Pinched Mantle

[NaH2O]

Hopefully, the protozoan doesn't or can't live on anything other than clams. Or at least has to have a clam to complete its life cycle. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that by the time my clams have finished treatment, and I have given them enough time to recover from everything in QT, the protozoans that may be in the tank are gone. I guess we'll soon see.

I just ordered another 2 bottles of metronidazole. I didn't know if I would have enough to continue treatment until the clam stopped pinching, so I wanted to stock back up (now that I'm doing the proper dose ).

 

[Travis]

I just ordered another 2 bottles of metronidazole. I didn't know if I would have enough to continue treatment until the clam stopped pinching, so I wanted to stock back up (now that I'm doing the proper dose ).

Might as well have some extra on hand anyways for when you buy another clam. That way you will be ready to treat it right away before putting it in your tank and you won't have to wait to order more. I get the feeling that an extra bottle of metronidazole is going to be a common item on every clam keepers shelf real soon.:idea:

 

[Barry N.]

We noticed today that since we have been medicating, that the croceas seem to be a little washed out as far as color. We have had them under 250 DE HQI. Back to the drawing board.

 

[NaH2O]

Barry - I'm noticing that with my larger crocea. The coloration is "washed out" is the best way I can describe it. Seems like over the past couple of days I've noticed it. I have mine under a 250W SE HQI ballast. I wonder if it has to do with the metronidazole. I was hoping once the treatment stopped they would color back up again.

 

[Barry N.]

I wonder if it has to do with the metronidazole.

That is what I am thinking, maybe the medication effects the zoo. Pinching is gone and I hope the color returns. Extending my photo period every day till I get back up to 10 hiours.

 

[NaH2O]

When I went down to the basement tonight - I lugged the camera with me. I wanted to show you how washed out the larger crocea has become. It is very evident in the photo. Sorry both pictures really suck, as I couldn't take a decent pic to save my life tonight, but you can see how washed out and brown the clam is becoming. The smaller one is still pinching (I'm pretty sure anyway), but the mantle isn't curling as much. Again, this clam also has the brown appearance, but not nearly as washed out as the larger of the two. I also forgot to mention - I dosed a little phyto tonight - I didn't think it would hurt anything, but I have a concern for the dumping of some zooxanthellae...how long will it go on (if that's what's happening)?

Here are the pics. Anyone else experiencing this??

The larger clam (#1) showing the coloration difference

The smaller clam (#2) still pinching (?), but not curling as badly as before

 

[the mad reefer]

yes. Mine are also washed out. I do think the colorations will come back. I have no scientific data to prove this. I am just an optimist!!

 

[chris&barb]

im treating a few Croceas,2 Squamosas,1 Derasa, and alot of Maxima's and i haven't seen any "washing out".I think my Croceas & Maximas have added color! Now I'm worried about my dosage again

 

[Barry N.]

If your clams are not pinching anymore, then I would not continue the treatment.

Nikki, clam # 1 look awesome as far as mantle but hard to see the color washed out effect.

 

[NaH2O]

Barry - I know the color is hard to tell, but it was never brown. It was always a dark blue/purple. I looked back at my other photos, but you can't really tell from there, but they didn't look so brown.....if that makes sense? lol

Also, Barry, do you think I should still keep on with the treatment based on how clam #2 looks? I'm not terribly concerned about the loss of zooxanthellae, yet, as I think they should be able to repopulate after treatment......but if it continues and treatment lasts longer......????? I suppose I only have a couple more weeks in QT before the main tank has been clam free for a month. I can put the first clam back in the tank to continue treatment with the little one. Although, if the little one still has protozoans, then could they have migrated to the larger one leading to an infestation after it leaves QT? aaaagggghhh :lol:. It would be awesome if I knew what the life cycle was. It would clear up a lot of unknowns, and may explain why my smaller clam (#2) is still symptomatic.

Everyone experiencing the "washing out" keep us updated on how long it lasts after treatment.

 

[Barry N.]

Nikki, I would continue with the treatment and WC for a bit longer but maybe dose less of the medication.

Now I have something else to consider, someone in Canada wrote to me that has been following this thread and said that he has never had a clam in his tank, and has been up and running for over a year. One of his friends has several clams that he has had for about 6 months now and all have been doing great. They have there monthly meeting at this person home so he has had the opportunity to observe these clams. This friend of his gave him one of the clams and after be introduced it to his tank, ( clam free) about a week later that clam developed pinched mantle. Now I have been racking my little brain, wondering what the deal is, so talked with the lab again and conveyed this story to them. They said that there are different types of protozoan and it may be carried by some other marine animal but then attaches clams. If this is the case, then maybe that explains why we very seldom get clams that develop PM because we have nothing in our clam holding tanks except clams. All of our SPS are housed in a separate system all together. The clams that we did get in (croceas) that developed PM were at a wholesalers that house a lot of different marine animals in the same system. It seems to me that there are too many variables to consider when it comes to finding the source. We may never know where the protozoan comes from as there is just so much to consider. Just when I think that I may have figured it out then I hear stories like the one above.

Again, guess this is just another good reason to quarantine everything we introduce to our systems. But then again, do we medicate everything before we place livestock in the display tank? Will we ever know what could be the carrier and then passed onto the clams? Let’s face it, we all take a chance when we place anything into our systems.

We just don’t have thousands of dollars to invest in research! Maybe Mike can loan us the money for more research. LOL

 

[Travis]

Nikki, I wouldn't worry too much about the washing out of your clams. I have experienced this before due to low light levels. A little over a year ago I had a tank crash and lost all of the corals in my fully stocked 75 but all except for 1 of my clams survived. The surviving clams had to be kept under pc's for a couple months when they had been under 400 watt 10k's before that. Within a week or two they all washed out and looked a lot more brown. They looked like this for the reamainder of the time but still appeared healthy. After moving them back under the MH's again they quickly recovered their original coloration. I think the washing out could have something to do with changes in light intesities and spectrums. Of course, the metronidazole could also be playing a role.

Barry, thanks for sharing that story. It is almost as though there may never be a 100% effective cure for the PM. We can still try our best and keep experimenting in hopes that we do find something that works. We could also keep our fingers crossed that our clams can eventually build up an immunity and fight of the protozoan. This appears to be what 2 out of my 3 clams have done. I think now I will wait and see what everyone else's results are after the metronidazole treatment and then putting the clams back in their tanks for a while. Fortunately for me, my clams are in a separate clam tank. The tank is plumbed to my main system so I didn't have to buy another calcium reactor or chiller. As the "story" unfolds and if it seems that the PM keeps coming back for people I guess I could always take my clam tank off-line from the main system and run it separately when I can afford a separate calcium reactor and chiller. That way I wouldn't have to worry about any other carriers as my clam tank is BB and there is nothing in there but.... clams!

 

[Barry N.]

Travis,

That way I wouldn't have to worry about any other carriers as my clam tank is BB and there is nothing in there but.... clams!

Over the years I have found ou that keeping clams in a dominated clam tank seem to work better than in a full blown reef. IME! Had a 40 gallon clam tank for about 2 years with nothing in it except 2 fish and a few rics and never had a problem. Go figure!

 

[bagedtaco]

Hey guys i just started reading this thread today.. and it's been great.
i had a couple crocea's in my tank that pinched. but after a few weeks of watching the pinching. it went away. with 23 clams in the tank it didn't spread to the other clams either. they are in a dedicated clam tank. but it's plumed into my main display.
the water volume in the tank is about 26gall.
i hope we can find a cure for this. and i will start documenting any future cases of pm with photos and treaments if any.

 

[Barry N.]

bagedtaco Welcome to Reef Frontiers

Glad that you joined us and post any inforamtion that you think might be helpful. feel we have found a cure but still working on where the PM is coming from.

 

[bagedtaco]

any news or more results.

 

[Barry N.]

We are very happy to report that our new croceas that have been in quarantine for 2 weeks and NO signs of PM. I know a few of the wholesalers in LA did replace their substrate and did some major cleaning After a little pronding from you know who. Have also been in contact with a few of the overseas supplers and I think that some have taken steps to help solve the problem but can't speak for all of them. The ones that I have contacted and been exchanging emails seem to be interested in our finding.

The other clams that we have in quaratine in another system and have been treated, show no signs of PM but they have lost some of the color. Not sure why but am working on that as well. Wish I could find more hours in a day. Haven't seen much of Sherry these past several weeks, only to say hi, good night and see you when I get home.

Here are the new ones that are coming out of guarantine.

 

[mojoreef]

Hey you just had a thought, for the folks that have this pinched mantle, how many of you have cleaner shrimps??


Mike

 

[chris&barb]

well i stoped my treatment 2 days ago after seeing no signs of PM, they had been treated for over 2weeks.i was planing on placing them back into the main display in another 2weeks but when i just checked on them now, IT'S BACK!!! just retreated them and we will see what happens
Mike we do have a cleaner shrimp put not in the tank with the clams. our tanks are linked thru the sump but we have no shrimp or crabs in the clam tank

 

[Barry N.]

hmmmmmmmmm