Please help me save my reef ASAP!!!!
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liveforphysics
Banned
I am available tonight (night owl big time), and possibily tomarrow night (i generally make plans as the last second).
Dont worry about Cl- in your water. Its seriously not a concern, and I would much rather have Cl- in my water than the compounds de-clor compounds produce. Espically with seattle dream tap water.
However, if you are just doing 5gal changes at a time, dont bother. Work the math out, 10 5gal water changes is NOT like doing a 50gal water change, its more like doing a single 10gal water change (obvously depends on the size of your tank).
I live near the northgate mall. I think you are in bad need of a system re-design. If you would like, I can help set you up with a fuge and cheato and a handful or two of my sand. Its EVERYTHING you need for a rock solid and totally algae free tank.
Dont worry about Cl- in your water. Its seriously not a concern, and I would much rather have Cl- in my water than the compounds de-clor compounds produce. Espically with seattle dream tap water.
However, if you are just doing 5gal changes at a time, dont bother. Work the math out, 10 5gal water changes is NOT like doing a 50gal water change, its more like doing a single 10gal water change (obvously depends on the size of your tank).
I live near the northgate mall. I think you are in bad need of a system re-design. If you would like, I can help set you up with a fuge and cheato and a handful or two of my sand. Its EVERYTHING you need for a rock solid and totally algae free tank.
liveforphysics
Banned
At least for water in our region, water conditioner of anytype is a bad idea.
Skimmy
SKIM FU
you could always buy purified ro water from those large "fill it yourself" water dispensers at safeway, it's only 2.00 for 5g, filtered and clorine free. or see if a lfs will sell you some aged water from their coral systems to change out your water with, but i wouldnt be using puget sound water unless you plan on putting it through a uv, massive carbon, and micron filters
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Electrokate
Well-known member
That's what I do, crack people up when they are under stress. Has gotten me in trouble with my employers repeatedly and I will never stop doing it 
I think I am going to mod the stupid skimmer since when it works it works well. The Seaclown... that definitely is a sad device. I heard they use sealants that break down in saltwater within a year. Is that true?
Yes do get water from a filter, almost all big grocery stores have them now, Fred Meyer has coin op ones in the entry next to the carts so you don't even have to go in the store.
Tap water is scary/random, every so often the water company in the next town over from me does something that wipes out both fresh and saltwater tanks, even if people use dechlor. If bacteria levels go up chlorine goes up. Also there may be more chlorine closer to the plant where it is dosed than further out on the supply line.
The best dechlor is the stuff that used to be in common use, pure sodium thiosulfate. Some companies add all this stuff to it to make it more expensive, when really all you need is that small bottle dosing 1 or 2 drops per gallon. I think pure dechlor is probably fine in a pinch but the additional chemicals are of unknown effect and tweak skimmers out.
A couple friends are on wells, both have nitrate above 40 ppm and phosphate above 20 straight out of the tap, and a friend with an algae problem last summer couldn't figure it out... finally tested her tap water and phosphate was over 160! And who knows what else, I think they are getting farm runoff which probably also contains pesticides and heavy metals from fertilizer. During the rainy season there may be more farm runoff ending up in reservoirs as well. If unsure test the tap water for phosphate and nitrate, if you get any then it would definitely be better to use filtered water. After learning all this I drink R/O as well. After all, my line of city water comes from an assortment of wells located close to my friends' houses.
Water conditioners may also have "buffering compounds" which have phosphate. Some water conditioners are meant for tropical freshwater use, they buffer to 7.0 and don't do anything to saltwater except add phosphate. During the rainy season the water company also buffers to neutral because acid water supposedly leaches more chemicals/toxins from pipes and seals. All this is just food for algae.
The grocery stores should be able to tell you what filters their machines use, if it's not labeled. Usually they are more sophisticated and better maintained than what we use at home, combining UV with R/O and particles, carbon, ion exchange... they got it covered. Considering the cost of an R/O unit they are kind of a bargain and you reuse the water containers. Downside: you have to store the water containers and you may need a chiropractor afterwards. Practice safe lifting and if in doubt use many small containers instead of one large one. Trust me, I have several herniated discs and already had one surgery. All started with lifting 5 gallon containers. You don't get SSD or any other government benefits for discs either, so I am just plain po' Thankfully I have a very nice boyfriend, even if he resents having to subsidize my coral habit
Good luck, use R/O and keep us posted! If in doubt read labels, take notes and research what you find. Supplements should list ingredients, if they don't I refuse to use them. Many companies in this industry think we have too much money and would like to help unburden us of this load.
Kate
I think I am going to mod the stupid skimmer since when it works it works well. The Seaclown... that definitely is a sad device. I heard they use sealants that break down in saltwater within a year. Is that true?Yes do get water from a filter, almost all big grocery stores have them now, Fred Meyer has coin op ones in the entry next to the carts so you don't even have to go in the store.
Tap water is scary/random, every so often the water company in the next town over from me does something that wipes out both fresh and saltwater tanks, even if people use dechlor. If bacteria levels go up chlorine goes up. Also there may be more chlorine closer to the plant where it is dosed than further out on the supply line.
The best dechlor is the stuff that used to be in common use, pure sodium thiosulfate. Some companies add all this stuff to it to make it more expensive, when really all you need is that small bottle dosing 1 or 2 drops per gallon. I think pure dechlor is probably fine in a pinch but the additional chemicals are of unknown effect and tweak skimmers out.
A couple friends are on wells, both have nitrate above 40 ppm and phosphate above 20 straight out of the tap, and a friend with an algae problem last summer couldn't figure it out... finally tested her tap water and phosphate was over 160! And who knows what else, I think they are getting farm runoff which probably also contains pesticides and heavy metals from fertilizer. During the rainy season there may be more farm runoff ending up in reservoirs as well. If unsure test the tap water for phosphate and nitrate, if you get any then it would definitely be better to use filtered water. After learning all this I drink R/O as well. After all, my line of city water comes from an assortment of wells located close to my friends' houses.
Water conditioners may also have "buffering compounds" which have phosphate. Some water conditioners are meant for tropical freshwater use, they buffer to 7.0 and don't do anything to saltwater except add phosphate. During the rainy season the water company also buffers to neutral because acid water supposedly leaches more chemicals/toxins from pipes and seals. All this is just food for algae.
The grocery stores should be able to tell you what filters their machines use, if it's not labeled. Usually they are more sophisticated and better maintained than what we use at home, combining UV with R/O and particles, carbon, ion exchange... they got it covered. Considering the cost of an R/O unit they are kind of a bargain and you reuse the water containers. Downside: you have to store the water containers and you may need a chiropractor afterwards. Practice safe lifting and if in doubt use many small containers instead of one large one. Trust me, I have several herniated discs and already had one surgery. All started with lifting 5 gallon containers. You don't get SSD or any other government benefits for discs either, so I am just plain po' Thankfully I have a very nice boyfriend, even if he resents having to subsidize my coral habit
Good luck, use R/O and keep us posted! If in doubt read labels, take notes and research what you find. Supplements should list ingredients, if they don't I refuse to use them. Many companies in this industry think we have too much money and would like to help unburden us of this load.
Kate
alison
*Alison*
yikes
Sounds like you need a few necessities, and you'll have to do some serious re-vamping. You should get the extra skimmer, and definately remove everything that's already dead. Buying purified water would probably be the right way to go, (whether buying a hundred little jugs or calling the culligan man).
Really sorry for your loss, it can be so discouraging.
Sounds like you need a few necessities, and you'll have to do some serious re-vamping. You should get the extra skimmer, and definately remove everything that's already dead. Buying purified water would probably be the right way to go, (whether buying a hundred little jugs or calling the culligan man).
Really sorry for your loss, it can be so discouraging.
aquarookie
Pure Poison :)
Yeah, a system redesign, some more equipment and filtered water would definitely be nice. Does anyone know which store in Burien sells that purified water you guys are talking about? I mean, I know I can buy 1 gallon jugs for a buck a gallon, but 50 gallons cost 50 bucks, darn it! I have not seen the fill yourself kind around here, but then again I have never specifically looked for it (never heard of it before). We do have Fred Meyer, Safeway and Albertson's here but I have not seen anything other than 1 or 2 gallon jugs of distilled or "purified" water.
steve-s
Well-known member
Seattles drinking water is actually pretty good....
http://www.seattle.gov/util/static/COS_004581.pdf
While you'd probabley be fine using it in the tank (non reef), I would still be leary of not treating the water. Although the contaminant levels are low, they are still present. A simple additive, my favorite being Prime (bisulfite and hydrosulfite salts buffered at pH 8) will give you peace of mind. It will not damage anything in the tank/reef and will help eliminate problems from untreated water, including metals. Although chlorine would be a small amount, it is still a disinfectant so any amount has the potential for harm. Keep in mind as well, it takes about 24 hours for it to break down and leave the system. If chloramines are present, it can take up to a week to break down. Copper and such (if not using carbon) will eventually accumulate and could (rarely) cause problems with invertebrates/fauna. The main products to avoid being those that contain aloe, they're the main ingredient that affects the proper operation of the skimmer.
Cheers
Steve
http://www.seattle.gov/util/static/COS_004581.pdf
While you'd probabley be fine using it in the tank (non reef), I would still be leary of not treating the water. Although the contaminant levels are low, they are still present. A simple additive, my favorite being Prime (bisulfite and hydrosulfite salts buffered at pH 8) will give you peace of mind. It will not damage anything in the tank/reef and will help eliminate problems from untreated water, including metals. Although chlorine would be a small amount, it is still a disinfectant so any amount has the potential for harm. Keep in mind as well, it takes about 24 hours for it to break down and leave the system. If chloramines are present, it can take up to a week to break down. Copper and such (if not using carbon) will eventually accumulate and could (rarely) cause problems with invertebrates/fauna. The main products to avoid being those that contain aloe, they're the main ingredient that affects the proper operation of the skimmer.
Cheers
Steve
Electrokate
Well-known member
I would call Fred Meyer, Top Foods has it here but it's not in a handy spot, and other stores close to you. They probably have the filter machines, and you wouldn't even notice. They are usually surrounded by vending machines for candy and stupid stuff, in the entry with the shopping carts. Some stores put them with the "health food". Price wise I think it's half what you'd pay by the jug or maybe better. Also call the LFS's, usually they sell it for 20 or 30 cents a gallon.
Course maybe getting an RO unit is economically feasible, it's just that the cheaper ones waste water so if you pay your own utilities you get reamed. Mine tosses at least 5 gallons for each one it makes, and only makes 10 gallons per day. Cost was 60 bucks. For 300 bucks I can get one that wastes no water and pretty much produces on demand. My landlord is curious about why the utilities are up so much here. I told him it's because the hose leaks. Well, it's true... somewhat.
Also, just remembered... you can get saltwater from the sound from the aquarium in Seattle, it's filtered and ready to go. That would be cheap but involves coordinating with them and transport. Still, have read it's dirt cheap... And quality is high, it's the same stuff they use. Probably better than what we make out of a bucket and some RO.
Kate
Course maybe getting an RO unit is economically feasible, it's just that the cheaper ones waste water so if you pay your own utilities you get reamed. Mine tosses at least 5 gallons for each one it makes, and only makes 10 gallons per day. Cost was 60 bucks. For 300 bucks I can get one that wastes no water and pretty much produces on demand. My landlord is curious about why the utilities are up so much here. I told him it's because the hose leaks. Well, it's true... somewhat.
Also, just remembered... you can get saltwater from the sound from the aquarium in Seattle, it's filtered and ready to go. That would be cheap but involves coordinating with them and transport. Still, have read it's dirt cheap... And quality is high, it's the same stuff they use. Probably better than what we make out of a bucket and some RO.
Kate
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aquarookie
Pure Poison :)
Thanks for the advices everyone. If I go to buy water anywhere (Fred Meyer, the aquarium or what have you), first I better invest in a huge water transport container, because I do not have storage space for LOTS of buckets, and to go down with just a couple would be a waste of gas. Darn, I was at SWC today, and they sell water for 30 cents a gallon or so, but I completely forgot about it! Oh well. My tank is still not 100%, but it is definitely doing better.
btuck
Well-known member
Ok now that all the problems are solved I have to defend my skimmer. I have a superskimmer on my horse tank and love it. It pulls out darker skimmate than I have ever seen. Almost nasty black. Perhaps I have one of the newer models but I love mine. Not saying anybody is wrong...I just had to defend mine.
