Plumbing Ideas for a Room Divider

[kris4647]

Hi everyone,

I'm planning a 400 gallon acrylic tank [Innovative is tops on my list right now to build it.] I'm having some problems coming up with some creative plumbing/water return schemes and looking for ideas. I'm going to try to describe the layout and my preliminary ideas.......

Tank will be in a weight bearing wall between my formal living room and den. There is basically and opening between the two rooms like a window. I mentioned the weight bearing wall because structurally I don't want to modify it [could but don't want to risk it]. The tank will "hang over" into both rooms. It will be viewed all the way around except for the walls on the ends. These walls are 4". Hopefully that describes the environment. The dimensions I'm planning are 84"l 38"w 29"h.

Now to the problem, Overflows. Cant really go at the end because you will be able to look around the corner and see into them. So I was thinking two island overflows around 1/3 of the way down from the ends on both sides maybe to correspond with the cross bracing.

Next would be the water returns. I have two Am3k's with the upgraded seals. so I'm thinking of one for a closed loop and one for the return.
Question there is where to locate the loop's suction. and where to return water.


Wheww. How about that for a wordy first post!!!

Questions are welcome and your experience appreciated.

Kris

 

[mojoreef]

Welcome aboard Kris, sounds like a really neat project....and a plumbing nightmare, lol.
Ok I am going to have to think on this one for a bit. Answer me a couple of quick questions. Whats the plan for substraight??. What are you going to keep ultimately in the tank (ex: sps type, lps, softies FO). Is the plan for all under the tank with equipment or basement??


Mike

 

[kris4647]

No more DSB for me. Light gravel or Light sand for aesthetics.

SpS/LPS lotsa flow but I want to stay away from streams [got those now and not happy with look]. Considering an ocean motion for CL.

All equipment below tank. 41" tall welded stand with wood veneer. So it should be roomy.

 

[CarlaW]

Kris, welcome to RF. I'll tell you right now, you've got a good guy lookin into this for ya, Mojo's one of the best!!! I'm gonna hang around for a while to see what you guys come up with.

 

[mojoreef]

How about aquascaping do you have a look you are going for??

Mike

 

[kris4647]

The vision I had when I first starting thinking about it was kinda like two atolls of rock around the overflows with maybe some rock low to the floor in between; lots of swimming space in between and around. You will see through the center of the tank to the other room. Virtually nothing proped up against the clear acrylic. LMK if that makes sense.


Thanks to you both for making me feel very welcome, I really like the layout of this board.

 

[mojoreef]

Ok Kris some thoughts. With the way the tank is going to be displayed were going to have to bring most of the plumbing up from the bottom, which is tricky to do it neatly. I dont think the OM is going to work in this case as 8 holes would be to much for my liking and the plumbing for it would be to intrusive. We are goig to have to go outside the envelope for this one to make it look clean and still get function from it. Hows the budget o this Kris?? do we have some room??


Mike

 

[kris4647]

Pretty close at this point.. Are you thinking PLC.?

Youre 100% correct on the returns. Unless we oversize the overflows...

 

[mojoreef]

Whats a PLC??

I have got a plan, but its going to be make for some nifty plumbing. Couple more questions. Do you have an existing sump?? if so I need the exact demensions. Also 3000gph is not going to cut it for the closed loop and have the flow you want in such a big tank. So we are going to go with two CL's each one using a 3000gph and each using a 4 way OM. I am going to go with two center overflows approximately a couple of feet off the end walls and centered in the tank, but not squared, we will offset them a bit. I have a trick way of returning the CL lines to where they will be hidden. Its going to get tricky on the returns from the sump and the drain lines of the CL. I figure the best way to do both and to make it nice and neat is not to use piping in the tank. Instead we will make our own out of black acrylic (no head scratching) on either end of the tank right on the portion of the end wall that is covered by the wall framing. I figure that would be ok as no one will be able to see it thier. One side will be for sump returns and the opposite for CL drain inputs. If the plan works out you will have 32 outputs from the closed loops giving you awesome coverage and solid flow. 4 drainline inputs with no in tank piping and 2 sump returns again with no in tank piping. To be honest you shouldnt see any piping at all.

Now would you be able to glue a few peices of acrylic together?? they would not be structural at all just decorative??


let me know if the concept sounds like a plan and I will see if I can get a drawing up.


Mike

 

[kris4647]

The acrylic part is no problem, I have help on this end [Got a friend who made my sump and new stand]. Or better yet maybe we can involve the Innovative guys to get it absolutely to spec. As I'm still in the planning phase w/them.

The idea of using the ends that will be hidden by the wall to create a few returns is beautiful!!. Nice... Are you seeing something here just large enough to handle a durso?

As to the sump, its up in the air, so to speak, I'd rather start fresh with a new one, but at some point my budget is going to catch up to me. My Current sump accomodated 3000 with no problem. I'll get you some dimensions on it.

32 inputs is scaring me but I'd love to see a prelim sketch.

 

[mojoreef]

Ok Kris this is a rough draft and NOT to scale. Here is the concept. On the sump return I would suggest a pump like a Iwalkie 100, it will come from the sump and go into the left side of the tank via a 1 inch BK through the bottom. On the inside of the tank we will not put any piping, instead we will build a slim box (with a top) that will be 4 inches wide by about 1 1/2 sticking out and the height of the water column. about 2 inched down we drill two hole and tap them to hold 2 x 3/4 outputs and then put 2 eductors on them. these will point across the top of the water column for surface aggitation. This box will be dead center and cover the wall area of the walk through.
Ok the closed loop drain will be made simularly and on the exact opposite side of the tank. The difference is that it will stick 3 inches out and will house 2 x 1 1/2 BK through the bottom which will go to both CL pumps. On the inside of the tank the box will have 4 x 1 1/2 drain screens.
On the Closed loop it gets tricky. We will go with two center overlfows about 8 inch squares (could be less) this will act as the overflow to the sump. The CL pump will be a 3000, it will go directly into a 4 way OM.The out puts of the 4 way will be 1 1/2 and will come up individually on each side of the overflow via a 1 1/2 BK. On the inside of the tank thier will be a manifold for each input, this manifold will be made up of 1 1/2 Tee's (4 on each manifold) and piping. We will bring these manifolds up to about 4 inches below the surface of the water (could be lower). Coming out of each Tee will be a reducer to go from 1 1/2 to a 3/4 female threaded adapter. Now what I would like to see is a black acrylic 3/4 box made to cover each manifold pipe, it doesnt have to be glued to the overflow or the bottom. It will be attached to the manifold by screwing the 3/4 male locline adapter to the female adapter on the manifold.
With 4 outputs at 3/4 inches should make it so thier is very little head lose and give us great coverage through out the water column. You can install locline to each output and then aquascape over it so that the outputs come through the rock would and blow into the tank and onto the opposing rock pile. It should also be completely hidden by the rock work.


Let me know and I will do up some details


Mike

 

[mojoreef]

Mike

 

[VickiG]

Wow, that is AWESOME, Mike! Kris, this is going to be one sweet tank! I am going to follow along and see what you guys dream up next. Kris, FYI, we also just ordered our new tank from IAP and Mike is designing our CL. Even though our tank is a 'baby' (150g) compared to yours, it is great to see all these ideas from such creative people!

 

[kris4647]

Sorry for the delay Mike, I'm working the night shift this week and its hectic out here right now.

The only thing I'm hesitant about is adding the extra closed loop for all the extra pump noise. I know the flow is needed but I may have to re-think my thoughts on my streams....

The planning gets kinda overwhelming, doesnt it? I know youve been there.



Let me take it all in and will post more tomorrow. Its very kind of you to help me out so much.

 

[mojoreef]

yea it does Kris. Its one of those things where you look at it all and think wow I am going to far, but in the long run its better then saying damm I should have done all this prior. lol. The 2nd ampmaster shouldnt be to loud but it does add a bunch of plumbing to the equation. take your time



MIke

 

[kris4647]

Okay I'm sold Mike. Any detail you can add to the drawing is welcome. Stand is welded and tearing down the wall next week. Just in a money pit right now. OceansMotions are killin me the most.

Have you heard how the Sequence Dart performs. Loud? I hear not. With all the flow in the tank, if I can get around 2000gph out of a low wattage return pump like that should be sufficient. IMO

 

[mojoreef]

Kris you have 2 ampmasters right??

You dont have to have the OM's if you dont want. We could remove them and scale down on the outputs. Let me know


Mike

 

[kris4647]

Sorry for all the lengthy delays, killin me at work. I do indeed have two Am3k's for the loops but I still need a return pump. Preferably low voltage, enough to turn the tank over 4-5 times.

I think I'd like to go forward with your plans, primarily because it will be so clean. Lotsa flow no PVC or PWR heads. The OM is still up in the air, that $600 kinda hurts right now [Just bought a new skimmer!]. What would it look like with all three pumps and no OM?. Wonder if we can plumb to where the OM is an upgrade that can be added later?

Thanks for all your help once again, my tank is going to be ordered tomorrow.! Look for me in the Innovative sponsor thread!

 

[mojoreef]

No problem Kris. I was thinking if you didnt already have the ampmaster we could upgrade the pump and go to a MBV. The motorized ball valves are only around 300. Yes we could try to make it so the om could be added later for sure but the flow might be a little slow coming out of so many outputs. Let me play around a bit maybe I can come up with a pla that is simular but only uses one OM


Mike

 

[T_reef_kid]

WOW! mojo you the man! that is really creative! i was wondering if drilling holes thru the bottom would be a problem...it scares me to think what would happen if one leaked...cant wait to see the finished product!