Poisonous Palythoa Polyps

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dfulton

Active member
Joined
May 23, 2009
Messages
25
Location
monroe wa.
The people of SALTWATER CITY are absolutely BRILLIANT. They actually could have saved our lives. Our family recently purchased a 75 gal aquarium, and then found a guy on Craigslist that was selling his live rock, anemone's, fish, etc., due to the fact that his doctor told him he was "allergic" to his fishtank. Everytime the guy stuck his hand in the water, he would get "sick."

We thought that was odd, but purchased all his stuff, which included about 90 pounds of live rock. That night we brought it home, and without gloves, transferred all the sand, live rock, sea anemone's, etc.

We really didn't know anything about the type of creatures we had on the rock, which happened to include poisonous Palythoa Polyps. That night our whole family became dreadfully ill.

We were all sick for 4 days, myself the worse, as my immune system had already been compromised, therefore leaving me with a fever for three days which peaked at 103.5.

We all had difficulty breathing, terrible body aches, nausua, diarreah, headaches and we were coughing up green flem. After 4 days, we recovered, but that next weekend, I put my hand in the tank and got another fever of 101.7. This was repeated 5 times.

We researched on-line and thought I may have Salmonella Paratyphi B, but we called Andy at Saltwater City, and he said I either had Vibrio, or that we had Palythoa Polyps growing in our tank. I went to the doctor which determined I did NOT have Salmonella or Vibrio. It was the Palythoa Polyps, just as Andy had suggested.

We brought a water sample into the store, and they discovered how toxic our water was. We have quickly removed these deadly polyps and thanks to SALTWATER CITY, we are on our way to enjoying a healthy happy tank.

We called the previous owner, and asked what his "allergy symptoms" were. They were identical to ours, including the fever. He was not allergic.

These rare Polyps have been used by islanders to make poison arrows. One gram of Playtoxin from these polyps can kill up to 600 mice. You must wear gloves and goggles whenever handling these dangerous polyps. Scratching your eyes after handling without protection may result in permanent blindness. My son, wife and I had symtoms from just "breathing" the fumes from the tank! We had 4 large clusters in our 75 gallon tank. If you ever have a Reef Tank question you need answered, please contact these guys at 425-644-7050.
 
Glad to hear that you guys recovered from that. Yup those little buggers are CRAZY TOXIC. Another thing is that they spit out when you frag them so goggles are a must. The ones that you guys encountered though the ones that Andy was talking about shouldn't be in tanks. I believe they are from Hawaii. You guys should sell this story to that Mystery Diagnosis show or something.
 
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all zoanthids and palys are toxic. Some more than others. I am glad that you and your family are good. There was a post on one of the other sites that the person invloved was not so lucky. He had permanant neurological damage.
 
The toxin is a Vasoconstrictor and usually does not produce flu like symptoms. Vasoconstrictors cause extreme pain and should not be taken lightly. A trip to the ER is in order for palay or zoa reactions.

Don
 
I had this reaction once to a customer's tank filled with a very large ugly brown Palythoa. I was changing out the stand of the tank due to water damage. Severe allergy symptoms, then I was sick for days.

Oddly enough, I've never had that reaction with any other palythoa. Must have been a hopefully rare species, either that or the quantity of palys caused the level of toxins to be quite high in the tank?
 
I'd also be interested in the test that was done.

When you removed the "Poisonous Palythoa Polyps", did you leave them at the store?




What color were they?
 
And fwiw, I have never seen any zoanthids or palythoa polyps in my tanks or anybody else's tank that have been soo toxic that they would contaminate the water or create fumes.
 
Palytoxic Poisoning

I'd also be interested in the test that was done.

When you removed the "Poisonous Palythoa Polyps", did you leave them at the store?




What color were they?

I'm Dave's wife, Amy, typing here. Our family took a water sample into Saltwater City, and Andy had a cut on his thumb and he actually stuck it in the water. Immediately it started burning and stinging, and he was shocked by this. He said he has NEVER experienced anything like this, as he get cuts and stings all the time, and never had a problem putting his hand in the tank.

He then ran the water thru his normal (SELOS???) test to check for all the basics, (Phosphate, Nitrogen, etc) and the water tested normal for that, but it was just Andy's "thumb" test that blew him away. Me, my son and Dave were all in the store, and he could see how sick we were. Andy's wife is also a medical doctor, and they truely believe that the water is so toxic that the "epervesence" is continuing to make us sick. We all feel fine unless we are messing around in this tank. Then we all get sick. My husband is in the worse condition. We are keeping an eye on him. When he first handled these rocks, he got a puncture wound from possbily a bristle worm?

We told Andy that Dave put gloves on up to his armpits and he slowly pulled out the Polyps and placed them into a bucket. As Dave lifted out the Polyps, you could see them emmitting a large white cloud of toxic into the water. Other small polyps have been continuing to grow here and there among the other rocks and on the sand bed.

Andy said the only way to remove the remainding straglers was to Chistle them off, because if you try to use "Joe's Juice" like you would for the Majano Sea Anemone's, the Polyps actually release more toxin into the water. Prior to this, I was busy in the tank removing these bad sea anemone's, and many of them were growing within the polyps, so by me applying the "Joe's Juice" to kill the Majano's, it caused the Polyps to react in a bad way.

We also removed a small section of sand, as we intend to go bare bottom. This greatly disturbed the substrate. Doing all of this immediately made our family have breathing difficulty and body aches. I have experienced chest pain and accellerated heart rate. We then sealed the polyps in a trash back and threw them away. Andy agreed this was appropriate.

It could be that we had such a large numbers of these Polyps, 4 LARGE clusters in our 75 gal tank that has made it so toxic. He sold us a product called "Chemipure" and a Poly Filter pad to put into our sump. He said to flip the Chemipure over every few days, and remove all the sand in our tank. Every 4 days we will remove a small section of sand and do a water change, and flip the bag of Chemipure over. We will continue this for a month, then start the process again with new Chemipure and Poly Filter pad.

Andy said he had one customer in the past that experienced this, but only had ONE small cluster of these Palythoa's, and I don't know how large his tank was. Every time that guy simply stuck his hand in the tank, he got sick.

I was able to upload one picture under "My Photo Gallery". They are attractive, small and purplish in color, with a bright green pinpoint center. You can see the green glow under the blue lights.

We need to contact the guy who we originally bought these from, to find out where in the world he purchased these polyps. He originally told us he only had a few in his tank, but quickly they multiplied into large clusters. I hope this helps. These polyps look so simular to ones in Saltwater City that are harmless. I almost couldn't tell the difference. They have a small fringe around them, (not long fringe) and are a purply-mauve color with pink stalks.
 
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It would make more sense for it to have been a bacterial reaction with the symptoms. The chemipure would not do anything for the toxins but it would help with bacterial since it contains amoxicillian. The paly toxins are a vasorestrictor soluable in water meaning they would be highly diluted. Not to be rude but you folks should see a doctor if you truely think these symptoms are the resut of a vasoresrictor. Even bacterial would be a good idea so it doesn't spead and cause problems.

Don
 
Once heard a story of someone trying to kill his rocks by torching them... he torched some Palys and breathed in the fumes.. he was sick for days.

There is and exchange of air within the tank which would transfer to the surrounding area. If Toxin levels are so hi that it is coming out of the tank..Wow.

I am with Don... seek medical attention
 
I think everybody with these brightly colored toxic palys, need to send them to me for disposal into my display...

As with Cobra venom, toxic if injected into the bloodstream. Not fun to to get into the eyes or even a cut.

But display water becoming toxic due to them? I think there is a lack of evidence to support that particular hypothesis.

If your family is sick, I would seek advise from a trained DR in lieu of any live fish monger...
 
Dangerous Palythoa Polyps

Once heard a story of someone trying to kill his rocks by torching them... he torched some Palys and breathed in the fumes.. he was sick for days.

There is and exchange of air within the tank which would transfer to the surrounding area. If Toxin levels are so hi that it is coming out of the tank..Wow.

I am with Don... seek medical attention

Thank you,
At the time when Dave's fever reached 103.5, we had no idea why. I called the DR and they said only to bring him in if it climbed higher. It broke. Then we started putting the pieces together that he was getting sick from the tank. Yes, originally we specifically asked our DR to test Dave for Salmonella Paratyphi B and Vibrio. They claimed to have tested for everything, including the Swine Flu. Everything came back negative, but his white blood cell count is currently high. Andy, at Saltwater City claims that the Palythoa's can cause this. Dave is going back to have his blood checked again. Today we are all feeling better, and I have posted a picture of one of the clusters under "My Photo Gallery". Sorry it is blury... I have more pics, but I don't know how to resize them, as they are too large to upload.

The tank is located at the bottom of our tri-level home. Each time my husband has opened up the top of the tank, we get a horrible cough, body aches and headaches. After a couple of days, the symptoms go away, until one of us re-enters the tank. My 9 year old is not allowed near the thing. He gets horrible asthma symptoms if he gets near the tank.

Our first step to resolving this is by following Andy's advice to try to de-toxify the tank. We have alot of beautiful live rock that we hope to save, but after a few months, if the problem is not resolved, we are aware that we may have to gut the whole thing and sterilize everything. We are trying to first avoid this, and keep our health! I find all of this so facinating. Unfortunately this is our first attempt at starting a reef tank. We have owned "Salt Water Fish Only" tanks since 1991 with no problem whatsoever. Who would think we would be guests on "Wheel of Misfortune"?
 
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Honestly if this is still going on after a water change you most likely have something else going on. I'd look a little deeper starting with the wood and finish of the canopy and stand. If you dead end and can't find the source the take a water sample to either you MD or spectra labs in Tacoma.

Don
 
Honestly if this is still going on after a water change you most likely have something else going on. I'd look a little deeper starting with the wood and finish of the canopy and stand. If you dead end and can't find the source the take a water sample to either you MD or spectra labs in Tacoma.

Don

Thank you,
We just removed the Palythoa's on Monday. We felt a little ill that evening, but Dave did not get a fever. Our symptoms only lasted Monday night and a little yesterday. Apparently, I have read that it can take up to 2-3 days for symtoms to appear. Today is Wednesday and we are all feeling much better. So all the drama only occured while the Palythoa's were in the house.
 
If all other sources have been removed, perhaps your family has a allergy. Similar to some being dangerously allergic to honey bees, strawberries, peanuts, or chocolate.

Still, seems highly unlikely as palythoa toxin is NOT airborne. I would be more suspicious of mold spores or toxic volutile chemicals such as cleaners...
 
If all other sources have been removed, perhaps your family has a allergy. Similar to some being dangerously allergic to honey bees, strawberries, peanuts, or chocolate.

Still, seems highly unlikely as palythoa toxin is NOT airborne. I would be more suspicious of mold spores or toxic volutile chemicals such as cleaners...

To clarify, we first purchased the aquarium, stand and pump system which sat empty in our house for a month or so. We had no symptoms. We then purchased all the "goodies" on Wednesay May 27, and it was that DAY we all got sick for 4 days straight. We ALL handled the live rock, etc without gloves. The symptoms we had were exactly the same symtoms of the guy who sold us the stuff.

As I replied on a previous post, we have kept saltwater aquariums since 1991 without any problems whatsoever. In the past we had live rock but it was a "fish only" tank... (no corals or anemones) This is our first attempt at starting a reef system. The only times my husband got a fever was when he put his arm in the tank without gloves. We didn't connect his fevers to the tank until just last week.

We had no idea that the Palythoa Polyps could be harmful, so as we arranged our tank, they were picked up bare handed and some polyps were accidently squeezed, where a white liquid emmitted from them.

Andy, at Saltwater City does believe that our substrate is filled with bad bacteria. The previous owner had a poor pump system. We have a brand new system that is pumping high volume flow.

Hopefully we can restore this tank without gutting the whole thing.
We will have more facts in the weeks ahead, as it will be interesting to see what happens as we remove more sand. I truely believe from experiencing this first hand, that it is the Playthoa Polyps AND the substrate.
 
The substrate is not real likely either since you moved it unless it was full of sulfide gas. I assume your talking about a dsb. If its shallow sand then probably not. I'm sure they are nice people but 2 and 2 is not adding up.
Don
 
The substrate is not real likely either since you moved it unless it was full of sulfide gas. I assume your talking about a dsb. If its shallow sand then probably not. I'm sure they are nice people but 2 and 2 is not adding up.
Don

Andy questioned us if we were allergic to bees, peanuts, etc, and the answer is no. The sand in our tank is about an inch thick. I really don't know what more to say, other than Dave is the only one with the puncture wound and he phyically handled the Paly's and got fevers?

Again, me, my son and my husband's symtoms were: shortness of breath, asthma like, coughing, rapid heart beat, chest pain, abdominal cramps, diareah, nausua, HORRIBLE muscle pain, especially in our lower backs and legs, splitting headaches, extreme fatigue. Only Dave got the fevers. During the four days we were sick, the three of us, including our 9 year old son slept most of the day on our couches in terrible pain. It was that Friday after we assembled everything into the tank that Dave went into the DR, which he had to repeat the next weekend? This is our experience. Make of it what you will.
 
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