Scooterman
Well-known member
I was hoping to have a place we can use as a pointer, equipment is always one of discussion so this will be a great starter for questions & information. :exclaim:
Post your Questions, Ideas or suggestions here!
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reedman
Well-known member
How about RO/DI systems. They are the key to our tanks clean water.
Why they are important, how to instal and maintain. How to decide on the right size. When to replace the catridges. What to look for in a system.
Just a thought.
-Reed
Why they are important, how to instal and maintain. How to decide on the right size. When to replace the catridges. What to look for in a system.
Just a thought.
-Reed
sirrahcd
Member
I like that idea. I will be purchasing one in the near future and any information would be a real help.
Scooterman
Well-known member
Ok, I'll throw in some information.
First is why?
Well, tap water contains added chlorine to kill bacteria which allows us to have drinkable water, that in some cases can be the only treatment the water gets, so all of the minerals, TDS's are still there, we can chemically neutralize the tap water but still won't remove everything without some type of basic filtration. A good poly & carbon filter in addition to the removal of chlorine and the water quality steps up quite a bit but we then go to & RO unit thus filtering water even better, forcing water through a membrane, positively charging the water particles ( I may be corrected on that part of exactly how it works), the a Deionizer to remove silicates & polishing it to about 99.9% pure water, in short we strip everything from the water & only add what we need. We find through years and years of research & testing that we have less problems, like heavy metals, phosphates any chemicals in the water etc, these things cause so many problems.
I have a 35gpd, system, although it works well, I could easily go 100gpd, just to speed things up, in this case anything after 50g or maybe 100g, I'd say get as big as you can afford, normally 75, or 100gpd will work fine for the average tank. I also can be corrected on this but from my experience. I change out my filters about every 6 months, excluding the membrane which they say about three years depending on how much water you make each day, week month etc. Ok, as for as hook-up and specific name brand, I'll just say that again in my opinion, in most cases these units will all work fairly nice, shop around for pricing, 4 or 5 stage the better, I'm sure you will get a ton of other ideas & suggestions, I'm just getting this kicked off.
First is why?
Well, tap water contains added chlorine to kill bacteria which allows us to have drinkable water, that in some cases can be the only treatment the water gets, so all of the minerals, TDS's are still there, we can chemically neutralize the tap water but still won't remove everything without some type of basic filtration. A good poly & carbon filter in addition to the removal of chlorine and the water quality steps up quite a bit but we then go to & RO unit thus filtering water even better, forcing water through a membrane, positively charging the water particles ( I may be corrected on that part of exactly how it works), the a Deionizer to remove silicates & polishing it to about 99.9% pure water, in short we strip everything from the water & only add what we need. We find through years and years of research & testing that we have less problems, like heavy metals, phosphates any chemicals in the water etc, these things cause so many problems.
I have a 35gpd, system, although it works well, I could easily go 100gpd, just to speed things up, in this case anything after 50g or maybe 100g, I'd say get as big as you can afford, normally 75, or 100gpd will work fine for the average tank. I also can be corrected on this but from my experience. I change out my filters about every 6 months, excluding the membrane which they say about three years depending on how much water you make each day, week month etc. Ok, as for as hook-up and specific name brand, I'll just say that again in my opinion, in most cases these units will all work fairly nice, shop around for pricing, 4 or 5 stage the better, I'm sure you will get a ton of other ideas & suggestions, I'm just getting this kicked off.
sirrahcd
Member
Is Ro/Di significantly better then Ro? There are many people who use just Ro water and seem to be happy with the results. I would find it interesting to see how many use specificly Ro compared to those who use Ro/Di. Further, who switched from Ro to Ro/Di and did they detect a change in there sytems do to the addition of the Dionization.
Further, the freqency of filter changes in Ro/Di units is something I never considered. It seems that until your system reaches a certian volume, purchasing an Ro or an Ro/Di unit wouldn't be practicle. But then, I may be missing a lot more to this then just the filter changes.
I'm curious as to why you would upgrade to something larger then the system you have. I was considering a 50 gpd unit and believed it to be a little overkill. If I use 2.5 gallons per day as top off and do 25 gallon per month water changes, this unit would be way more water then I would consume.
Its near impossible to argue against using Ro or Ro/Di water. However, wither purchasing a unit is practicle for a specific system, and then what unit and what size unit purchase is where the questions arise.
Further, the freqency of filter changes in Ro/Di units is something I never considered. It seems that until your system reaches a certian volume, purchasing an Ro or an Ro/Di unit wouldn't be practicle. But then, I may be missing a lot more to this then just the filter changes.
I'm curious as to why you would upgrade to something larger then the system you have. I was considering a 50 gpd unit and believed it to be a little overkill. If I use 2.5 gallons per day as top off and do 25 gallon per month water changes, this unit would be way more water then I would consume.
Its near impossible to argue against using Ro or Ro/Di water. However, wither purchasing a unit is practicle for a specific system, and then what unit and what size unit purchase is where the questions arise.
reedman
Well-known member
sirrahcd
A couple of things to keep in mind about capacity:
1) the fact that the unit says it will produce 50 gpd does not meant that it will produce 50 gpd for you. This output is under optimal conditions (i.e. high pressure water in, low TDS in, continual use, etc.)
2) keep in mind that unless you are running the unit with a float switch to keep a container full, when you want water (or better yet need water) you don't want to have to wait a day to fill a bucket.
3) The difference in the units is the RO membrane (at least that's my undersanding). The other components are the same. You could always change later.
I have experienced first hand how important water pressure is to the prodction of the RO/DI units. At my previuos house I had very high water pressure (60-80 psi) going into the unit and prodcution was great. Now I have 30-40 psi and I have a 10:1 ratio of waste water to product water. I now have to get a boost pump to get the unit to run correctly. Just one of those things you don't think about until later.
-Reed
A couple of things to keep in mind about capacity:
1) the fact that the unit says it will produce 50 gpd does not meant that it will produce 50 gpd for you. This output is under optimal conditions (i.e. high pressure water in, low TDS in, continual use, etc.)
2) keep in mind that unless you are running the unit with a float switch to keep a container full, when you want water (or better yet need water) you don't want to have to wait a day to fill a bucket.
3) The difference in the units is the RO membrane (at least that's my undersanding). The other components are the same. You could always change later.
I have experienced first hand how important water pressure is to the prodction of the RO/DI units. At my previuos house I had very high water pressure (60-80 psi) going into the unit and prodcution was great. Now I have 30-40 psi and I have a 10:1 ratio of waste water to product water. I now have to get a boost pump to get the unit to run correctly. Just one of those things you don't think about until later.
-Reed
Hey Reed,
I'm in the same boat as you with water pressure. I have a Kent Maxima Hi- S 60 gal/day. I have not hooked it up yet. Our new house has pressure that varies from 50-60 lbs. Do ya think a booster pump is advised? I'll be watching this thread close cause it's plumbing time. Also trying to figure out auto-top off in conjunction with caulk reactor...........Thanks Scott
I'm in the same boat as you with water pressure. I have a Kent Maxima Hi- S 60 gal/day. I have not hooked it up yet. Our new house has pressure that varies from 50-60 lbs. Do ya think a booster pump is advised? I'll be watching this thread close cause it's plumbing time. Also trying to figure out auto-top off in conjunction with caulk reactor...........Thanks Scott
reedman
Well-known member
Hey Scott,
I was told by the manufacturer of my RO/DI system that optimum psi is around 85. So for me it is a requirement to get the boost pump. You'll probably want one unless you can use the waste water to water the lawn or do the laundry.
The auto top off thing is cool, I just can't work through the day knowing that if something goes wrong the house water supply is running into my tank and onto the floor. I prefer to have a reseviour that I topoff from and just refill it once a week. My opinion only.
If you do go with the auto topoff it would feed into the Kalk reactor as fresh water in and the saturated water would feed into your tank or sump.
I was told by the manufacturer of my RO/DI system that optimum psi is around 85. So for me it is a requirement to get the boost pump. You'll probably want one unless you can use the waste water to water the lawn or do the laundry.
The auto top off thing is cool, I just can't work through the day knowing that if something goes wrong the house water supply is running into my tank and onto the floor. I prefer to have a reseviour that I topoff from and just refill it once a week. My opinion only.
If you do go with the auto topoff it would feed into the Kalk reactor as fresh water in and the saturated water would feed into your tank or sump.
Scooterman
Well-known member
WOW, now we're cooking, I will try and do better explaining when I get back. I also corrected my spelling, as I was a little tired when I was writing last night.
Scooterman
Well-known member
What Is Reverse Osmosis
Reverse osmosis, also known as hyperfiltration, is the finest filtration known. This process will allow the removal of particles as small as ions from a solution. Reverse osmosis is used to purify water and remove salts and other impurities in order to improve the color, taste or properties of the fluid. It can be used to purify fluids such as ethanol and glycol, which will pass through the reverse osmosis membrane, while rejecting other ions and contaminants from passing. The most common use for reverse osmosis is in purifying water. It is used to produce water that meets the most demanding specifications that are currently in place. Reverse osmosis uses a membrane that is semi-permeable, allowing the fluid that is being purified to pass through it, while rejecting the contaminants that remain. Most reverse osmosis technology uses a process known as crossflow to allow the membrane to continually clean itself. As some of the fluid passes through the membrane the rest continues downstream, sweeping the rejected species away from the membrane. The process of reverse osmosis requires a driving force to push the fluid through the membrane, and the most common force is pressure from a pump. The higher the pressure, the larger the driving force. As the concentration of the fluid being rejected increases, the driving force required to continue concentrating the fluid increases. Reverse osmosis is capable of rejecting bacteria, salts, sugars, proteins, particles, dyes, and other constituents that have a molecular weight of greater than 150-250 daltons. The separation of ions with reverse osmosis is aided by charged particles. This means that dissolved ions that carry a charge, such as salts, are more likely to be rejected by the membrane than those that are not charged, such as organics. The larger the charge and the larger the particle, the more likely it will be rejected.
Deionizer : Ion exchanger removes dissolved impurities. The purity is comparable with distilled water. A common variant contains a mixture of cation exchange resin in the acid form and anion exchange resin in the hydroxyl form inside a replaceable cartridge; ions in aqueous solution are exchanged for the elements of water by passing the solution through the mixed resin.
Is it necessary, well maybe not, you can get good fiber filters & carbon blocks up to 1 micron, that will remove a tons, which is really great water these additions are also fairly cheap as compared to the rest of the system.
Sizes & equipment;
Why do I say we need a bigger unit?
For one thing in most cases you are not talking about a lot of money up-front. Also what was posted about is also another good reason, you won’t necessary make that much water over time & you may not have enough pressure to get maximum output. This in no way means you need to get a booster pump, with your average home supply you will produce enough water, just in some cases some larger system, or very low pressure system would you want to go farther and boost your output pressure thus maximizing your unit and producing less waste water. BTW, when they say wastewater, this water is actually still really good water; it passes through the filter media & carbon block. In fact Kent recommends that you drink only the filtered water from the first two stages, using this pure water strips all of the minerals we need as humans. As to how often we need to replace filter media, use a TDS meter (Total Dissolved Solids) or usually the packages recommend replacing them according to use. I change out the first two often, then the DI & RO usually goes longer and so does the cost.
Hope this helps!
Scott A.
Reverse osmosis, also known as hyperfiltration, is the finest filtration known. This process will allow the removal of particles as small as ions from a solution. Reverse osmosis is used to purify water and remove salts and other impurities in order to improve the color, taste or properties of the fluid. It can be used to purify fluids such as ethanol and glycol, which will pass through the reverse osmosis membrane, while rejecting other ions and contaminants from passing. The most common use for reverse osmosis is in purifying water. It is used to produce water that meets the most demanding specifications that are currently in place. Reverse osmosis uses a membrane that is semi-permeable, allowing the fluid that is being purified to pass through it, while rejecting the contaminants that remain. Most reverse osmosis technology uses a process known as crossflow to allow the membrane to continually clean itself. As some of the fluid passes through the membrane the rest continues downstream, sweeping the rejected species away from the membrane. The process of reverse osmosis requires a driving force to push the fluid through the membrane, and the most common force is pressure from a pump. The higher the pressure, the larger the driving force. As the concentration of the fluid being rejected increases, the driving force required to continue concentrating the fluid increases. Reverse osmosis is capable of rejecting bacteria, salts, sugars, proteins, particles, dyes, and other constituents that have a molecular weight of greater than 150-250 daltons. The separation of ions with reverse osmosis is aided by charged particles. This means that dissolved ions that carry a charge, such as salts, are more likely to be rejected by the membrane than those that are not charged, such as organics. The larger the charge and the larger the particle, the more likely it will be rejected.
Deionizer : Ion exchanger removes dissolved impurities. The purity is comparable with distilled water. A common variant contains a mixture of cation exchange resin in the acid form and anion exchange resin in the hydroxyl form inside a replaceable cartridge; ions in aqueous solution are exchanged for the elements of water by passing the solution through the mixed resin.
Is it necessary, well maybe not, you can get good fiber filters & carbon blocks up to 1 micron, that will remove a tons, which is really great water these additions are also fairly cheap as compared to the rest of the system.
Sizes & equipment;
Why do I say we need a bigger unit?
For one thing in most cases you are not talking about a lot of money up-front. Also what was posted about is also another good reason, you won’t necessary make that much water over time & you may not have enough pressure to get maximum output. This in no way means you need to get a booster pump, with your average home supply you will produce enough water, just in some cases some larger system, or very low pressure system would you want to go farther and boost your output pressure thus maximizing your unit and producing less waste water. BTW, when they say wastewater, this water is actually still really good water; it passes through the filter media & carbon block. In fact Kent recommends that you drink only the filtered water from the first two stages, using this pure water strips all of the minerals we need as humans. As to how often we need to replace filter media, use a TDS meter (Total Dissolved Solids) or usually the packages recommend replacing them according to use. I change out the first two often, then the DI & RO usually goes longer and so does the cost.
Hope this helps!
Scott A.
I just hooked up a 6 stage RO/DI filter that is rated at 100 gpd. My TDS reading from the tap was anywhere from 40-50 ppm (parts per million). The reading after the unit was 0-1 ppm. I know that I could reduce my waste water using a booster pump, but they are too expensive right now. When I was looking at the booster pumps, I haven't found one that exceeds 50 psi. Is this enough?
Scooterman
Well-known member
Actually I thougt most recommended 80psi but that needs to be confirmed. 40-50 ppm is great for Tap!
reedman
Well-known member
I'm using the Aquatec 8800 Booster Pump & it works great!
Heres the description of it:
This pump is intended for membranes rated up to 120 G. P. D. this pump incorporates a unique new Fully adjustable bypass valve which controls the maximum allowable outlet pressure, (70 to 110 P.S. I). Regardless of variation in feed water pressure.
A new patented piston design ensures higher compression ratios for better start up and better dry priming. This pump can be mounted in several positions without entrapping air including head up and head down. Close tolerances within the pump head and motor result in lower amp draw, lower operating temperatures, smoother running, longer life, lower maintenance, and greater efficiencies. This pump incorporates powder cast alloys and a unique label sealing process to reduce exposure to moisture which is the major cause of motor failure. The pump is capable of operating in a warm, humid, hostile environment where other pumps have been known to fail. We believe this to be the most durable pump available on the market today. This pump comes standard with John guest Speed fit connections.
Well worth the money for me. I have a huge difference in waste water and the product water comes out much faster. Should increase my membrane life as well, since I am running at the higher pressure.
JMHO
-Reed
Heres the description of it:
This pump is intended for membranes rated up to 120 G. P. D. this pump incorporates a unique new Fully adjustable bypass valve which controls the maximum allowable outlet pressure, (70 to 110 P.S. I). Regardless of variation in feed water pressure.
A new patented piston design ensures higher compression ratios for better start up and better dry priming. This pump can be mounted in several positions without entrapping air including head up and head down. Close tolerances within the pump head and motor result in lower amp draw, lower operating temperatures, smoother running, longer life, lower maintenance, and greater efficiencies. This pump incorporates powder cast alloys and a unique label sealing process to reduce exposure to moisture which is the major cause of motor failure. The pump is capable of operating in a warm, humid, hostile environment where other pumps have been known to fail. We believe this to be the most durable pump available on the market today. This pump comes standard with John guest Speed fit connections.
Well worth the money for me. I have a huge difference in waste water and the product water comes out much faster. Should increase my membrane life as well, since I am running at the higher pressure.
JMHO
-Reed
reedman
Well-known member
I'll PM you. They are not a sponsor, so I shouldn't advertise here for them.
snobanker
Well-known member
Ok I know an RO/DI unit will purify my tap water....in doing so does it also remove the chlorine/chloramines?. Once I get my RO/DI do I still need to add some sort of dechlorinator or is it all set to use as soon as it comes through the filter? I need to get a RO/DI and was thinking of getting one of of Ebay...they have the 100GPD units for around $75.00 or so, anyone know a better deal?
DonW
R.I.P.
The ones on ebay work just fine but dont come withe the lower micron filters, youll need to change those. No you dont need dechlor.
Don
Don
snobanker
Well-known member
Thanks Don 
uncle salty
Member
Question? I have a MAGNUM pro 60 canister filter with the dual bio-wheels , I know the bio-wheels are a bad idea for reef-keeping but can the canister be of any use.
Lorbear
Member
Hello!
I have just bought a used Rondex osmosis system. When I run water through it, the amount of "osmosis" water is much greater than the amount of "flowthrough" water. In my old unit, it was just the opposite, the amount of osmosis water was much less than the flow water. According to the indications on the cylinder, the connections are correct? Any opinions?
Thanks
I have just bought a used Rondex osmosis system. When I run water through it, the amount of "osmosis" water is much greater than the amount of "flowthrough" water. In my old unit, it was just the opposite, the amount of osmosis water was much less than the flow water. According to the indications on the cylinder, the connections are correct? Any opinions?
Thanks
