Problems...

[AW2EOD]

First time poster..referred by DisturbedReefer...very cool forum.


Been having some major problems in my 200gal. tank, lately. First, let me state that I'm running it with a sump (no skimmer)...and that's basically my only filtration. I know, I know...definately need a skimmer. Just havent been able to afford one yet.

I added a Black Volitan Lion to my tank, earlier this week, and within 1.5 hours it was dead. That got me thinking and I tested the water...nitrates were at 160ppm. Shock is what killed the Lion. All the other fish were doing fine.

I did a large water change (aprox. 75%) and levels dropped back down. Now, my Red Coris Wrasse looks like he's dying. Very bloated stomach, swimming nose down, in the sand and he has what appears to be hemorrhaging, on his head, behind his right eye, roughly where his brain would be. Tested the water again and my ammonia is off the charts.

I'm completely stumped. I have no idea where the ammonia spike came from. Again, like with the nitrates...all the other fish are acting normal. I did a 30% water change, tonight, checked the ammonia and it's still sky high.

What to do?

 

[wrightme43]

supposedly and this is not a solution, just a fix. Prime by seachem says it detoxifies ammonia, and makes the biofilter able to remove it. It says on the package that 5ml of prime will remove or detoxify .6 mg/l of ammoina in each 50 gallon of water.

 

[wrightme43]

Ok now on to a solution. How big are the fish? Especially the moray and puffer. Do you feed them live fish, frozen, dried shrimp, pellets, or what? How much live rock do you have? Do you have bioballs, or some sort of bio media. Did you use tapwater to do your water change? If so and your city is using Chloramine and the detoxifier you used was for chorline only that would explain the high ammonia reading. How long was the lionfish dead in the tank? When was your last water change? How big and how often? Tell us more and we can help you to narrow it down. Usually for me, talking about what the problem is helps me to see the solution and fix it. HTH Steve oh yeah ex STS3 SS qualified.

 

[DisturbedReefer]

Welcome to Reef Frontiers AW2EOD, good to see you here. I'm sure you can get lots of answers here from the ol timers so I will just say hi and tag along for the knowledge.

 

[NaH2O]

Welcome to Reef Frontiers!!!

Steve/Wrightme43 has asked some really good questions. Can you post your water parameters since the water change (include ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate)? How often before the Lionfish death were you cleaning up the tank (i.e. sucking up detritus and left over food)? Are all inhabitants accounted for?

Here is a thread that has some great information posted by mojoreef. I think it will help you get an understanding of a direction to go with filtration, and possibly what is happening with your system. Upgrading Help

 

[DonW]

I would agree that the lion could have died from shock. The other from high ammonia and shock. You did a 75% WC, if the water was not at the proper temp and ph this could have caused a problem. Thats a big water change! Also did you mix the water with a pump for 24 hrs. Some salt mixes have high levels of ammonia, i'd test the salt mix.

Don

 

[blennyluv]

how did you acclimate your fish?

 

[AW2EOD]

Wow...talk about alot of replies. lol Thanks guys...now, on to answer some of your questions...

How big are the fish?...The eel is 2.5' long. The Puffer is 6". The Red Coris is 8". The Scopas Tang is 4". Those are the only inhabitants, other than a 4" Hermit.

Do you feed them live fish, frozen, dried shrimp, pellets, or what?...I feed frozen squid, krill, and flakes.

Do you have bioballs, or some sort of bio media?...the first chamber, in my sump is bio balls. Now, I have noticed alot of brown "material" (not sure what it is) laying at the bottom of the sump, in the bio ball chamber...as well as in the return pump chamber.

Did you use tapwater to do your water change?...I do use tap water for water changes. I have tested the water, many times, and everything seems fine. On the other hand...I do not know if it contains cholamine. How would I tell?

How long was the lionfish dead in the tank?...I watched the Lion, carefully. As soon as I saw he was having problems, I watched even closer. As soon as he took his last breath, I took him out of the tank.

When was your last water change? How big and how often?....my last change was about a week ago (that 75% water change). I usually do a 20 gal. water change every 2 weeks.

How do you acclimate your fish?...I float the bag, adding a cup of tank water every 5 - 10 min until the bag is full. Then, empty 1/2 the bag and redo the same thing. Then, put the fish in the tank and turn the lights out for an hour or so.

Thanks again, for the quick responces. I can tell I'm going to be a very frequent member here.

 

[wrightme43]

Alright now were in business. LOL. Ok The way to find out if your water company uses chloramine, is to call and ask that a water survey be faxed to you, or just ask and they should tell you or mail it to you. I am not sure though I bet Disturbed Reefer has a rodi unit and just maybe will hook you up with some pure water, if you maybe hook him up with a filter or two, usually not to much in price. If you have chloramine in the water supply you need to use a dechlorinator designed for it, not stress coat. Amquel or Prime is what I have used in the past. I still buy prime to remove bleach I use for cleaning decorations and regenrating purigen. My tap water is very high in nitrates, if I do a water change with tap water my nitrates go up in my tank instead of down because I am adding them in the water change water at a higher level than I have in my tank. LOL.
If your tank were mine here is what I would do. I would borrow (if you dont have one) a shop vac. I would make some water change water. Test it before putting it in the tank and give us the reading (you may find your problem here) Drain out your 20 gallon normal change size, and save the water. put your bioballs in this water and rinse them off. pump all the water from your sump to the tank. turning off the heater of course. use shop vac to remove all the brown mung (deterius) from the sump and bioball chamber. Put your bioballs back in and refill the tank. You may be served by getting more detirivores (starfish, hermits, snails) Quite often you will find your problem in your water change water. Some tanks the live rock and sand actually make the water you are taking out cleaner than what your putting in. See your nitrates could be so high because every water change you have been adding ammonia, turning it into nitrite, and into nitrate. Does that make sense? I know your local fish stores are open tommorow so hopefully you can find a ammonia detoxifier, DO NOT USE!!!!!!! Ammonia absorbing crystals, or carbon and ammonia absorber mix. They pull the salt out of the water, and leave the ammonia in saltwater. There are many fish stores that sell rodi water if you do not have any. If you cant find any at all, ask on here somebody will hook you up. Now for my disclaimer.LOL These are only my ideas, and what I would do in the situation as you described it. I do take care of 1000 gallons of tanks for other people now, I do not in any way shape or form claim to know much. I just know more than the people who pay me to what I do. LOL Most of them have enough money and sense to know they want fish and dont want to invest the time to take care of them. That simple. HTH helps you in some way

 

[AW2EOD]

Well...I think I found the source of the ammonia.

Yesterday, I took all the equipment out of the actual tank....powerheads, overflow box...dismantled everything and scrubbed it.

Today, I'm going at my sump. Cleaning everything. I took out all the bioballs, in the first chamber. At the bottom of that chamber there was a 2" layer of brown "gunk". Also, drained and dismantled the chamber that holds my return pump. Again....a 2" layer of brown "gunk".

Waste is the only thing I can think of, when trying to identify what this stuff is. It's brown, gooey and stinks to high heaven.

I got out the python and sucked it all out of both chambers. Took out all the bio balls and washed them.

Could this be the source of the ammonia? Is the brown "gunk" waste (left over food, fish poo, etc.)?

I'm thinking of putting a filter sock and a pair of pantyhose over the "to sump" pipe from the main tank to catch all of this stuff before it gets into the sump.

 

[wrightme43]

Ok I am pretty sure you washed your bioballs in tank water and not tap water. I sure hope so. The mung is probley more a source of nitrate than any thing else. The ammoinia was very high. That is not a normal occurance for a set up tank. usually as soon as ammonia is created there are hungry bacteria that immediately convert it to nitrite. These bacteria were overloaded somehow, or you would have 0 measurable ammonia. I would really like to recommend contacting other reefers or the water company in Chicago and finding out if Chloramine is used in your water. Also what type dechlorantor do you use. Some water companys are using some kind of silacate,and phosphoric acid to prevent pipe corrosion, you can imagine what that can do to your fish. I hope this all works out for the good for you and you can help others on this forum. Your ideas are important here. Steve

 

[Terry B]

Cut way back on feeding and avoid flake foods for now. Along with lots of water changes using well aged and aerated saltwater you could add some Poly Filter by Poly Bio Marine to remove a lot of the ammonia. If you can move most or all of the fish to a cycled tank then do it.

HTH,
Terry B

 

[Katchupoy]

Maybe I did not read it all... but how old is the setup?

 

[fishermann]

Cleaning your sump is a ggod beginning, probably the main source of your nitrate problems, I would for sure use a 100 micron sock on the intake and change it out aleast twice a week, turn wrong side out and wash in washer twice on gentle and let air dry. It sounds like you are feeding way more then your Bio system can handle. Are you running a DSB or a BB type system? How much LR do you have in the tank? How long has the tank been set up, to have that much gunk it sounds like quite awhile. I would get some Poly Pads in there also as mentioned above. You have alot of Bio load for that size tank without a skimmer. I would cut way back on feeding until you get your Ammonia levels under control. I would get a skimmer for sure, in the long run it well be cheaper. The most important piece of equipment you well own is you, keep up with your tank cleanings and water changes.

 

[Scooterman]

Well, how is it going? testing your water today?

 

[AW2EOD]

Sorry for taking so long to reply. I'm in the middle of moving.

All the tanks are broken down, and my fish are at my friends fish store.....doing GREAT!

All I can think of is this all was caused by ammonia poisoning. The Red Coris Wrasse was on the verge of dying, but ever since I transfered him to the fish store, he's been quickly recovering. All the fish are back to normal....with the addition of a 16" Banded Cat Shark. All of my fish are being held, at my friends store, in a 300gal. tank with all of my live rock.

All the tanks are already at my new house, and will be set back up this weekend. I'm going to set them all up using RO/DO water, instead of tap and we'll see if that has any effect.

Wish me luck!