Project 58!! (Image intense)

[Maxx]

Here is a top down shot of it. The cut wasnt as precise as I would have liked, (thats what happens when I free hand cut.....man I need a table saw!), but it is more than perfect for what I need.

Here's a front shot of it in the tank. This stuff is lighter than water and will float. However, my Loc-line returns are keeping held down until I get the rockwork in place.

And a side shot:

The tank just has RO/DI water in it right now....no salt mix....so the water is cloudy because the skimmer isnt working properly, (Skimmers dont work in fresh water because it doesnt have the right surface tension to create fine bubbles needed to skim. Just the big old goofy bubbles that wont make skimmate...just an FYI kinda thingy.)

Nick

 

[Maxx]

I also added braces for the lightbox support arms. The weight of the original lightbox pulled the arms down and out of level. I made a lighter box, (no pics yet), and braced up the supports with these 2x6 pieces I had lying around that were already stained and sealed. The support arms are not stained and sealed as of yet. I'm waiting to hang the lightbox so I can determine exactly where the best point to hang the box from. I'm still trying to decide if I want to drill two holes through the support arms and run the dowel rod, (that will suspend the lights and allow me to raise and lower the lights), through them, or mount another pice of wood above the arms and drill two holes through them. The only reason for doing it that way would be to gain 4 inches or so that I could raise the lights. Any suggestions?

Left arm looking towards living room.

Same arm inside, looking towards kitchen.

Nick

 

[Maxx]

Finally, I made the standpipe mod...

Originally I made a Stockman standpipe, I chose it because I couldnt think of a way to put a strainer over the Durso and keep larger snails from getting stuck in the bulkhead.
I used plans from Durso's Standpipe Page. I'm assuming that it is necessary to use larger plumbing with those as it is with the Durso's...cause this thing was LOUD!!!!!! Rocio couldnt sleep and neither could I. It literally sounded louder than a toilet flushing constantly. Had to make a change.
Luckily, I saw another reefer's mod to the Durso, which created a strainer which would keep snails out. He basically took another piece of plumbing, and sawed a row of shallow cuts into the side, along the entire length of his "strainer". So I copied that too....

Here is a pick of the new Durso standpipe.

Thankfully it worked! Now the loudest thing from the tank is my closed loop pump grinding out air bubbles left inside from when it was filled with water initially. That will dissipate in time.

Nick

 

[Maxx]

Unfortunately...I seem to have a heat issue already. W/O lights, the tank is running at 81 degrees. Looks like I may need a chiller. I really didnt want to have to use one....but I dont think I have much of a choice. Any suggestions on whihc brand you like and why? I'm thinking I should get a 1/6 or 1/5 hp chiller for my tank.
Nick

 

[Scooterman]

First I want to say it is coming along just awesome. First question, wouldn't you want to silicone the edges of the cutting board, so waste won't build-up in the gaps? Second, unless you use cable of some type, to raise and lower your lights, I can't help much here unless we get into more pics & details. Finally, I've made both types of stand pipes, the stockman was much quieter the the durso's original, but maybe I just happened to make the right combination in lengths for the height of the stockman, & missed the Durso, who knows, I just know it is twice as quite, & I spent lots of time trimming and adjusting the durso, with not much luck as being compared.
Oh yea, didn't you mention something about you getting married soon? If so you may want to step up the pace on the tank LOL :d

 

[Maxx]

Yeah, I'm getting married, but it will be in October of next year...so I have time to get things together.
As far as the standpipe goes, according to the directions on Durso's homepage, the stockman should be the same diameter PVC as the bulkhead. I think this may be the problem. Because the Durso needed to have 1/4 inch larger diameter PVC than the bulkhead. He states he doesnt know why...and I dont either. But I can tell you the noise from the Stockman I made was ungawdly!!

I'm not really worried about the crap building up in the spaces between the cutting board and the glass or overflow. I plan on siphoning out detritus at least weekly, if not more often than that, (until the rocks stop shedding crap that is...then it will most likely be less often.)
Silicone doesnt stick to the cutting board, or so I am told...I dont really want to drain the tank of RO water just find out either....
What amazes me is alot of people with sandbeds are voicing concern about stuff getting caught underneath the starboard/cutting board...their sandbed traps more crap than the cutting board ever will and they're worried about my little bit? LOL...to each his own I guess...
Nick

 

[Scooterman]

Well there you go Nick, the option for the stockman was typically the same size but I made it 1/4" bigger like in the durso plans, so maybe that made the difference.
Hey did you read the thread at RC about the 32 year old reef, it looks pretty nice, it uses a reverse under gravel filter system. go figure. lol Who'd a thunk it, silicone doesn't stick but really id doesn't need to, just fill in the gaps but I think your right, you don't need to worry about that.

 

[Maxx]

Hey Scott,
Your full of random information that usually winds up being helpful later on down the road, (no really, not being sarcastic....for once.), so where can I buy some clip on fans...this time of year.
Running the skimmer, mag 7 return pump and Iwaki MD-55 RLT has my water temp at 82.4 degrees......without lighting being hooked up yet. I will have to get the lighting hooked up and running before I can really determine if I need a chiller or not. But if the lightbox vents the heat properly, (you know, kinda like I designed it to....), then the temp may not go up very much, if at all. If the temp stays in the 82-83 range, I may be able to get by with a couple of fans until I can afford a chiller.
But its impossible to find any fans (outside of ceiling fans) this time of year in St Louis.....
Got any leads?
Nick

 

[dgasmd]

Where specificly do you think your heat is coming from? I would start to turn the pumps off for a day one by one and see if it makes any difference in the temperature. It is is the iwaki 55 that is causing it, you might be better off in the long run just getting another pump now than getting a chiller that will suck up electricity forever. If you do get a chiller, get a 1/3HP or even 1/4HP unit. It will run more efficiently and will allow you some room to expand in the future.

 

[Scooterman]

I agree maybe another pump. These things can be strange in characteristics, depending on design & quality of materials used can be a determining factor on how efficient the pump really is, inefficiency would equal wasted HEAT. I couldn't find clip on fans this time of the year, they are also seasonal, go figure lol. I can't believe your tank it that warm with just two pumps, I think one is working way too hard. Either that or something else in the water is cooking it up that high.

 

[big t]

The Mag pump isn't helping things, but I wonder if maybe the iwaki is getting restricted by the oceanmotion is causing more backpressure then necessary? Would it be a huge pain to temp in a different single return to see if you see any heat difference? It would only need to be 1 line looping over the top. Just a thought.

 

[dgasmd]

Well, I wasn't goiong to say anything, but those mag pumps are heat animals. I would replace that if you can now for some other external pump. In the same gph department, the external quite one comes to mind. Also, the smaller iwaki 20 comes to mind.

 

[Maxx]

Dgasmd and Scooterman,
Thanks for the input guys, I've been concerned about this heat issue as well.
Things I've noticed that may or may not be relevent....

My Fiance and I live in a 2 family flat, (one house, we live downstairs, friend lives upstairs). The upstairs apartment relies on radiant heat, (steam radiators) and the steam pipes run through the wall the tank backs up against. Had I known this beforehand I may not have put the tank there, although this wall is also supported by 2 monster iron I-beams making it the best structural location for the tank. You can feel the how much warmer this wall is compared to others in the house whenever you get close to the wall. I honestly had never felt this before, (I just dont hang out near the walls of my house....call me crazy. Besides, When I was planning out locations for this tank, it was summertime and the heat wasnt on.) I dont think this actually contributing to the heat issue, but I dont think it helps alot either.

I noticed the OM unit motor was pretty hot to the touch....by using my non calibrated hands...I'm guessing about 160 degrees or so. Its uncomfortable to touch for very long, but not painful and doesnt leave redness or anything. I was pretty concerned about this thinking I might have overtightened the motor after re-assembling it...(hey I had to look inside okay?).
So I went to the website www.oceansmotions.com and visited their 4 way forums.
I found a thread titled Heat issue with HD 4 way? where Paul (manufacturer) states that the motors are rated for 110 degrees C (which comes out to 230 F) and he reiterates that the motors are made by Hurst for dialysis machines.....so reliability is NOT an issue...and I would not think heat transfer would be one either since it sits on a heat sink and the drive shaft is made of high grade plastic....It's not a great heat transfer medium.

I just unplugged the OM unit unit and the Iwaki 55 RLT. I will wait until tonight and check the temp again. I want to give the water several hours, (like 12-14) to shed some of the heat.

I had the Mag 7 and the Skimmer offline until I could quiet down the overflow...and the in tank temp was 80.6 as opposed to 82.4. I will check temp and then turn on the Iwaki, but not the OM unit. The design of the OM unit is such that water will still flow from a closed loop, even if it's not operating..there by saving your pump if by some whackadoo reason the OM unit craps out on you. There is no reason to run the OM unit w/o the pump running as well, (no way to transfer heat to tank if pumps not running), and I really dont like the idea of doing that. The OM unit is built hell-for-strong, so I honestly doubt it would do any harm for the OM unit, but I still have a worst case mindset....

I really do not want to have to buy a chiller, (cause frankly, I cant afford the extra $400-$700 one would cost right now). But I've been doing some looking online and these are the two major contenders:

Pacific Coast CL-280 1/10 HP Inline Chiller
I have been hearing great things about these both as reviews on the retailer's site, and more importantly from online boards like here and RC. The only thing about this one that I dont like is having to use yet another pump and run plumbing to it.

The other is the TradeWind Drop-in Chiller - 1/5 HP This one is more expensive, but its plug and play...also larger in size.
I honestly dont think that upgrading is going to be an issue with this tank. I plan on upgrading to a 120 or larger when Rocio and I buy a house, but the way this tank is configured, it would be PITA to tie it in to a larger system....so I wont. When I go larger, I will go to a totally seperate system.
Thanks for the input guys...hopefully, I can figure this out.

Nick

 

[Maxx]

The Mag pump isn't helping things, but I wonder if maybe the iwaki is getting restricted by the oceanmotion is causing more backpressure then necessary? Would it be a huge pain to temp in a different single return to see if you see any heat difference? It would only need to be 1 line looping over the top. Just a thought.

Big T,
The Iwaki is restricted only at the end of the returns where it is reduced from 1" down to 3/4", but that is split into two 3/4" returns, so I dont think that is as much of a restriction as a single 3/4" return would be. But then again I'm not a fluid dynamics super genius either...

Well, I wasn't goiong to say anything, but those mag pumps are heat animals. I would replace that if you can now for some other external pump. In the same gph department, the external quite one comes to mind. Also, the smaller iwaki 20 comes to mind.

I had heard that as well, but when I had the Sump return and skimmer off line because the overflow was noisy, the tank was only 1.8 degrees cooler at 80.6 F. So I dont think the mag is contributing all that much....

Nick

 

[wrightme43]

Just a heads up on the clip fan. I couldnt find one either, seasonal like you said. I found one on e-bay. It ran on a timer with the lights for 2 days, I came home from work one day, and smelled a strange smell. The fan had locked up and was so hot it was starting to fail the motor insulation. It was about to catch fire. They refunded my purchase cost but not the shipping. So what I am saying is make sure you get a good one. HTH. Steve

 

[dgasmd]

Again, I would turn all the pumps off but one (consider the OM a pump for now). Leave it that way for at least 24 hours. The cooler the water begins to get, the longer it will take for it to get rid of the extra heat. Run it with one pump for 24 hours and reconrd your temperature. Turn it off and turn another pump on 24 hours and record your temp again. Do the same for each particular pump and you'll find out how much each devide is adding, that way you can make a better informed decision as to what, if anything needs changing.

As far as the chiller goes, I bought a 2 HP PCI unit. I am yet to connect it to my system, so I cannot comment on them. I ahve heard good thigns about them, but if I was to do it all over again, I would have gone a much different route, but that is solely based on my particular situation and not a reflection of the chiller itself. Another reason I mentioned the bigger units is because if your temp is staying in winter with no lights on at 83F, your mid day summer temp, regardless of AC in the house, will want to get to about 90+F. I would get a 1/4HP unit still. It will be money well spent.

 

[Maxx]

Yeah I hear you on the chiller sizing Alberto...
The only reason I'm looking at the 1/10th HP PCI is because they state it will pull down a 100 gallon system 10 degrees and a 60 gallon system 30 degrees. I have about 80 gallons so I'm guessing I'd be able to pull down the temp 20 degrees-ish, which is WAYYYYYYY more than I need or want. I 'm looking to be able to keep my temp at 80. I've been looking around and most of the really successful tanks run between 78-82 degrees and my target falls right smack in the middle there. I know some people are running higher, but I seriously dislike not having any margin for error.
The part of setting up this tank that sucks is the waiting. Gotta wait for the stain to dry, gotta wait for the wood seal to dry, gotta wait for the PVC glue to dry, gotta wait for the stuff to come in the mail, gotta wait for the temp to lower so I can check what pump is causing my heat issue....
I wouldnt mind waiting on things if the tank had some rock and pods in it...at least I'd have something to stare at.....sigh.
I'm gonna be a damn Jedi Knight/Zen Master of patience when this is all finished. Ask Curt if I'm good with patience.....sigh.....
Looks like I picked a bad week to quit speed.....Hey!!!! Coffee beans!!! Did you know you dont even hafta brew these things??? You can just eat em!!

*munch, munch, grind, munch, grind, grind*


Seriously tho....
Thanks Steve for the heads up on the fans.....Yeah, I have had fans go bad on me before....no Walgreens specials for me.
Nick

 

[Maxx]

As of 7:30 pm ,about 11 hours after shutting off the closed loop, the tank is at 77 F. The mag 7 return pump and skimmer pump are still running. I will wait until tomorrow evening to measure the temp again and see if it has gone down any more.
Nick

 

[dgasmd]

Well, I think you got your answer buddie. It would still be interesting to see how much more can it drop.

 

[Maxx]

Yeah, That was my thought as well....but what to do about it is the major question. I need a pressure rated pump to move the OM unit the way I have it configured. I don't know of a good replacement for the Iwaki MD-55RLT, that will run cooler. Also the Iwaki wasnt cheap, and I doubt any replacement would be either. So what would the difference be in buying a chiller? I mean if I have to buy something thats gonna cost in the vicinity of a 200-400, I'd almost rather opt for the chiller, just for stability sake.

I do have one other low rent option. I have an older dorm sized fridge downstairs, you know the kind big enough for a 12 pack of beer, some left over pizza and whatever individually wrapped condiments, (ketchup, mustard, soy-sauce, sweet and sour sauce, etc) you could stuff in there. My thought is to get about 50-60 feet of clear vinyl tubing, and connect one end to a maxi-jet 1200, (or something), drill two holes in the fridge, (one on top, and one through the side), run the tubing through the holes, place the other end of the tubing so it drains into the sump. If I run it slow enough, and I have enough tubing, I should get some heat exchange. I'll get more if I place a small bucket or something and fill it full of water, and run as much tubing through that as possible. I have absolutely no idea, how much flow I need to be achieving for this to work right...this would be a serious guessing game and playing around until I got it right. It also wouldnt be nearly as attractive as a new discreet chiller. But I would have a place to put my fish food that wouldnt annoy my fiance.
I need to do more thinking about this.
Nick