Reasoning with nutrients and algae

[DonW]

This thread is one Ive want to start for awhile. In a previous thread I stated "if its in your tank you put it there".

When a tank is started most run out and buy LR and or LS. This is great it has cool little critters, lots of purple algae and make the tank look good. What most beginners are not seeing is that they are gettting a big bang for their buck. You are also purchasing bacteria, cyano, diatoms and all sorts of thing that your going to be complaining about later.
Your told you need all these test kits and that the parameters for pollutants should all be zero and you will have no problems.

Here is where the reasoning part of reefkeeping begins and what we see 99% of the time. A newly set up tank starts growing all this algae, the owner comes to the forum and it goes something like this.

My tank has cycled, I added a cleanup crew and a few fish. Now I have this algae growing everywhere. I keep scrubbing it off but it just keeps comming back.

My water parmeters are:

Nitrates 0
Nitrites 0
Phosphates 0
Sg 1.026

We know if its alive it needs to feed, this is a fact and cannot be disputed. If your N was 0 and your P was 0 then you would not be feeding the algae so it stands to reason it would not be growing. We can safely assume since its alive you do have N and you do have P.

Ok so your thinking this guy is nuts. I tested my water. I took it to the lfs and they tested my water, heck I even had NASA test my water. So why is my algae growing.

These pest are feeding on excess nutrients as fast as YOU are putting them in the tank. When you test your getting 0's because the nutrients are now inside these pest and will not show up on your test kits. It stands to reason if you stop feeding the pest will starve and problem solved. Not really the case. Remember the nutrients that were in the pest. Well just like when a fish or snail dies algae will rot and release all those nutrients that you were putting in the tank. Is there a simple solution to this never ending circle. The simple answer is NO.
Being proactive is the only way to rid yourself of problems associated with a reef. Every time you do or dont do something to the tank there will be a reaction. 9 out of 10 times if you think about it you will know what the reaction will be.

Lets look for ways to be proactive and think ahead so you dont have the never ending circle of issues. What are you doing to be proactive?? I'm sure if the experinced folks chime in here this could turn into a very long list.

Don

 

[Herefishyfishy]

What are you doing to be proactive??

WOW, Great start Don!!!!

I've started to cut back on feeding my little friends so much so often and keep the skimmer running at it's best

 

[DonW]

What are you doing to be proactive??

WOW, Great start Don!!!!

I've started to cut back on feeding my little friends so much so often and keep the skimmer running at it's best

Now that you mention skimmers Ive just got to open up another can of worms. I can remember when I got my first needle wheel skimmer. It was great, pulled some seriously nasty stuff out of the tank. I could just take off the lid and the stench would run my wife and kids out of the room. I was so proud of my myself. Just like the little fat boy on the back of the school bus that could clear the whole back of the bus with single fart and have it all to himself. I wasnt the only one, reefer on every forum would post pics of there skimmate. You could go visit another reefers home and eventually someone would be sniffing the skimmate. Dont laugh to much all of you that have been around for awile know what I'm talking about. You take your cup to the sink for a cleaning and you cant help but give it a sniff or be proud of this foul stuff in the cup.

Looking back I can say that all that nasty skimmate was just telling us we did not take care of our tanks.

Don

 

[returnofsid]

Don, I recently upgraded from a POS skimmer to an Octopus 150. The POS had been "running" for almost 2 years and I rarely needed to clean out the collection cup. After upgrading, I was cleaning out the cup 3 times a week. It skimmed like that for about 3 weeks before finally catching up with the tank. Now it needs emptied about 2 times about every 10 days. I know exactly what you mean. But it really made me realize how important good skimming is. I'd had issues with my SPS color and keeping Acros under the T5s. All this time, I thought it was due to my T5s not being quite enough lighting. Once I upgraded that skimmer, my corals drastically improved!!! I'm also now keeping several Acros that are retaining their blues and other colors very well.

But wait, can't I just build a magic bucket and toss out the skimmer?? LOL

 

[tdgates10]

Where to start on the list that I have changed since I started this hobby 2 years ago.

I always make sure my RO/DI water has 0 tds and now know when to change filters before my meter even starts to read tds. I cut back on feeding big time, even with a beast of a skimmer. My lighting runs for 9 hrs a day instead of 12. My main change is water changes! I do 10% water changes 2-3 times a week. I have gone to QT everything before it goes into my tank. The most important item that I changes is understanding the hobby, and what to expect. Like Don said,
"Every time you do or dont do something to the tank there will be a reaction. 9 out of 10 times if you think about it you will know what the reaction will be."
I honestly think that can only come from experience and research. Now I don't consider myself to be an advanced reefer, but the more I read and inform myself about the hobby is all I can do to become one. Great thread Don!

 

[reedman]

One thing I have learned is it is better to make one change at a time and then wait to see what the effect of that one change is. A great example would be to add a new skimmer. Doing this you will see the effectiveness of that skimmer and should see results in the tank inhabitants. BUT, if you change your skimmer, add a new fish, rearrange your rock, and change your lighting you will have no idea what change caused what result (good, bad or otherwise).

 

[loohunter]

What are you doing to be proactive??

WOW, Great start Don!!!!

I've started to cut back on feeding my little friends so much so often and keep the skimmer running at it's best

this is something i realy struggle with. we just recently got back from a 3 island hawaiian vacation and let me tell you those fish are thick and it also appeared as though they would spend the majority of the day eating,so iam always wondering are the fish getting enough food or am i causing a future problem by them slowly wasting away

 

[danno14]

Loohunter-
The issue with trying to keep fat, well fed fish is our water volume and skimming ability.....it just doesn't compare to the "fish-inches per gallon" and waves-crashing-on-the-beach skimmers that Poseidon employs

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

One thing I have learned is it is better to make one change at a time and then wait to see what the effect of that one change is. ...

This little gem of advice just needs to be repeated. It's the cardinal rule of troubleshooting any system. Take the shotgun approach, and you may fix the problem but you don't know what problem you fixed.

 

[DonW]

this is something i realy struggle with. we just recently got back from a 3 island hawaiian vacation and let me tell you those fish are thick and it also appeared as though they would spend the majority of the day eating,so iam always wondering are the fish getting enough food or am i causing a future problem by them slowly wasting away

You can have fat fish but there is give and take and you have to be willing to give. I change the same amount of water each week. On top of that I add an extra gallon for every time I feed the fish more than once a day. Last week that was an extra 8 gallons this week it will be an extra 3 gallons.

Don

 

[loohunter]

i just started keeping an aquarium log everyday i do something to the tank i jot it down or just observations is there any algae. i find that it helps keep me on top of things and in the future i may be able to deal with potential situations before they happen. thanks don

 

[Scooterman]

This can be very difficult for me here. I've gone through may tanks & each was set up differently. My last big tank went without a bloom at any sort until a year after it was started, at that time it was my fault. After trying different things & ways to help keep nutrients out or removed from the tank I've had mixed results. Lately I've done the opposite of things I've done in the past unsuccessfully & it seems to be working out for me at the moment. When I do clean I suck anything & everything & can get to sand & all. I do blow the rocks throughly & stir the thin sb, make it all stay in the water column while siphoning out the water & removing about slightly over 70% when I change the water. I was told that some sps will rtn if I continue this, although I don't have a lot of sps yet I have only seen positive results being very critical of salinity & temp. & mixing well overnight or longer. One thing I do now is pay very close attention to what I feed, how much & frequency. the ingredients of any processed foods I look at closely & try to get natural found ingredients with the addition of only vitamins. Also mix my own foods & use some frozen rinsed in ro/di. I try to feed as frequently as possible & each feeding is very tiny, weekends they get many more meals. Along with this, instead of having lots of large fish I have only smaller species & way less than most would want to keep, they get along well & I don't need to feed more mouths, 3 fish in a 34g tank. One of the things I've done when I purchased this all in one tank was increase flow, spent days tweaking flow to keep as much detritus in suspension until it overflows or to settle in easy accessible areas. This allows either the skimmer or vac. to have a chance of removing as much as I can, I also skim fairly wet & fill cups daily.
Is this good for everyone? IMO probably not, might all catch up to me with issues suddenly, so then I'll have to make new changes to help contend with nutrients once again.
As far as testing everything, I test only what I add to the tank, as in ca, alk or mg other than salinity & water for TDS.

 

[loohunter]

i also skim very wet, i have noticed that i need to keep a very close watch on salinity as a result. i run filter socks 24/7 and change every 2 days

 

[sandollar]

Good husbandry is my route. If waste doesn't have a chance to sit and rott long enough in the tank to cause an issue then half your battle is won. That my theory atleast.

 

[Sascha D]

I agree. If its in there then YOU had to put it in there, whether or not you are aware of it at the time. I think the reason people are so suprised and afraid of what is happening in their tank is because they don't know the result of their actions.

If I could instill one thing in people it would be Education. If you know what is going to happen, then you can bypass the "shock factor" and react accordingly. Do some Research and know what you are doing, the result it is going to have and what you have to do BEFORE you do it. That doesn't mean you have to be perfect when you first start out or even after 20 years of experience, but it does mean you have to care enough about your animals to get up off the couch and read a book. Throwing money at the problem doesn't always fix it

 

[NaH2O]

I have noticed that I have to blast off the rocks daily to keep on top of the detritus shedding. I also rinse off foods in ro/di. I try and use good quality supplements (like Warner Marine), although I'm not sure how much this would have an effect on additional nutrients in a system.

 

[DonW]

I have noticed that I have to blast off the rocks daily to keep on top of the detritus shedding. I also rinse off foods in ro/di. I try and use good quality supplements (like Warner Marine), although I'm not sure how much this would have an effect on additional nutrients in a system.

I think it makes sense to use good additives. I seem to remember someone using basicly sugar in a ca suppliment. Cant remember who or where I heard it but you can pretty much count on the fact that some are definatly better than others. Shedding is a drag it seems to go on and on forever. This is one reason I started just using all dead rock.

Don