Red Bugs - Inevitable?

[salmonslayer]

To help me clarify something
Anyone know for sure on if they lay eggs here is a quote:
Quarantine

I have not been able to come up with an effective, quick kill dipping strength. Even at 100x strength, the bugs lasted over 30 minutes. The best way to keep them from getting back in your tank is to treat the coral for the full 6 hours, an increased dose seems to be safe for corals. You are only going to be treating your new coral once. If the bug lays its eggs on the corals (no one knows) they could hatch off a week later in your aquarium.

And if they do not lay eggs why do we do three treatments if they can be killed in six hrs. Thanks
PS try to get as much info so I can run my own test.

 

[Maxx]

They carry eggs like shrimp and crabs, on their bodies. They dont deposit them somewhere. Three treatments are suggested because they can and do swim, (very quickly), and one dose will not wipe out every crustacean in the tank.

Scott,
On both occasions I treated redbugs, the pod population was affected, but was able to bounce back within a few weeks. No controlled studies to my knowledge...Bourneman did stuff with these critters when there was a push to ID them...I believe they were idenitifed as tegastes sp....

Nick

 

[NaH2O]

salmonslayer - Nick is right. Somewhere in this thread I linked to a picture that shows the brood pouch. There isn't a need to worry about them laying eggs on anything (eek, like acro eating flatworms), but you do need to make sure all are wiped out. It only takes one surviving bug with a brood pouch to re-infect the tank .

Scott - great to see you! I had posted something about milbemycin oxime in a thread where I wondered about its removal from the tank, and/or long term effects once it is in the water. I posted information from the Novartis website. I'll post it again for the nerds like me that really enjoy this stuff

Properties
Milbemycin oxime, the active ingredient, is a mixture of the macrolides milbemycin A3 oxime and milbemycin A4 oxime. It interacts with the GABA receptors of the nervous system like other macrolides leading to paralysis. Milbemycin oxime is active against nematodes and arthropods.

 

[Ed Hahn]

I thought for sure someone would have mentioned levamisole by now again.

Nicki,
The last club meeting we had here in Seattle, we were instructed to treat repeatedly for 5 weeks to make sure infestation is gone. As someone noted, eggs from previous infestations hatch, etc.

 

[NaH2O]

Ed - I didn't think Levamisole was effective against red bugs? I've used it to treat acro eating flatworms before, but not red bugs.

 

[salmonslayer]

Thank you maxx,NaH2O great info. So upping the dose to treat a frag seems to work. I treated my system and added a total of 4 frags. Floating them each time for 24hr in a plastic tub in my sump. Took a power head to them before I placed in my tank. I was worried that I could reinfest my system. I did a massive dose to each frag. Should I be worried and retreat my system ?.

 

[ScottT1980]

Sorry for repeating information already in the thread. I got to page 14, hopefully didn't miss much more than that. I know a group here was going to do research on them (don't know specifics), but haven't heard any news. I just emailed the primary investigator to see if it ever got off the floor (as always, I am sure funding may be an issue).

A whole lot of information and personal experiences in this thread. Is my story unique (2-3 years with them, no noticeable change in growth), or is this something that is just as common as the decreased coloration, decreased growth proclamation?

 

[krisfal]

Also, I believe you can get ivermectin at a feed store, whereas you will need to talk to a vet to get your interceptor.

I get ivermectin at the feed store for my horses in a paste form (1.87%)-it treats up to a 1500lb horse (don't know how you would convert that to gallons of water). In fact I am looking at some I have now.

One thing that jumped out at me is it states that "Ivermectin and excreted ivermectin residues may adversely affect aquatic organisms." So I am guessing this would only be used as a dip/bath treatment and not used in a display tank?

Also I would be very concerned using the paste as the unknown is the inert ingredients. As what I have here is intended only for horses that are not intended for food, the inert ingredients are not even listed.

I would be interested in learning more about ivermectin treatment, dosages and the forms you can use (not sure about paste form). As I know it works well in horses as the parasites do not build resistance to it. Using other types of wormers with horses it is recommended that you rotate the type you use (if I remember correctly).

 

[Herefishyfishy]

Kris, the downside to treating a tank for redbugs, one has to remove most inverts or risk killing them. The young and the weak typically die right off. It also will wipe out your pod population.

 

[dailydriven911]

Sorry for repeating information already in the thread. I got to page 14, hopefully didn't miss much more than that. I know a group here was going to do research on them (don't know specifics), but haven't heard any news. I just emailed the primary investigator to see if it ever got off the floor (as always, I am sure funding may be an issue).

A whole lot of information and personal experiences in this thread. Is my story unique (2-3 years with them, no noticeable change in growth), or is this something that is just as common as the decreased coloration, decreased growth proclamation?

In my experience, before I treated for rb, I noticed pe was hit or miss with my corals. After I treated within the first couple of days pe was greatly increased on all my corals. I have talked to others who have treated and had the same results along with increases in color. I should have a better idea in the next couple months if growth is better or about the same.

 

[roscoe]

Yeah I noticed the same thing Jayson. I did a treatment on monday and it is very apperant that I have much more PE than a week ago.

 

[krisfal]

Kris, the downside to treating a tank for redbugs, one has to remove most inverts or risk killing them. The young and the weak typically die right off. It also will wipe out your pod population.

Yeah I know that is so with interceptor, so it is the same thing with ivermectin?

 

[Maxx]

Kris, the downside to treating a tank for redbugs, one has to remove most inverts or risk killing them. The young and the weak typically die right off. It also will wipe out your pod population.

The two times I did redbug treatments, (3x each...total of 6 doses), the only things affected in my tank were crustaceans and mini brittle stars. Interceptor did not affect my corals, worms of any sort, snails or molluscs of any sort, nor my anemone. It did kill pods, a hermit crab and a mythrax crab I couldnt get out. I had a blood shrimp that wasnt cooperating with me when I tried to get it out so it stayed in the tank w/ the interceptor for 4 hours. I was finally able to get it when it began to walk stiffly. It recovered fully after being removed and placed in fresh saltwater with the other crustaceans from my tank.

I did not pull out any pods for safekeeping/re-seeding, but saw plenty of pods in the tank within a month of doing the treatments, so it doesnt completely wipe out the tanks pod population.

Its important to note the red bugs are acro specific predators. They will only eat acropora corals. Bourneman observed that they also starved to death after 7 days without acros to eat. So they have a relatively high metabolism for a crustacean.

Nick

 

[salmonslayer]

Wow Max, sounds like you have it down. Thats great. I to did see a pod loss " I think " and why I say that is all my critter came back. It was like they went into a COMA for a few days. I did see my hermits suck back up into there shells but they two came back (Most of them).
You think if the dose was high enough it would have killed them.
I have a few friends that did some treatments and lost no Acro Crabs. I lost all mine all three times I treated a total of about 10 of them .

 

[krisfal]

Its important to note the red bugs are acro specific predators. They will only eat acropora corals. Bourneman observed that they also starved to death after 7 days without acros to eat. So they have a relatively high metabolism for a crustacean.

Nick

I had asked a question about RB life cycle on one of the other threads but the question was lost in the other happenings on the thread. I think this is a great piece of information. So theoretically if I did not want to treat my entire tank due to potential loss of other species I could remove all my acros to another adequate set-up for treatment and my display would be red bug free after a week.

So does anybody know how long their reproduction cycle is? I ask because I chose to only do a bath treatment to my acros and the rocks they are attached to. My thought was population control until I did an upcoming tank switch at which time I felt I could catch and put my shrimp somewhere else and treat the entire tank. I did a one hour bath in a concentration of 1- 23mg tablet to 16 gallons of water.

I had planned to repeat as needed, but have not seen a red bug since. It has been 4-5 months, can I feel comfortable in assuming that I no longer have red-bug? Would the levels of RB be high again in 4-5 month time period so that there would be no doubt that I still had them, or do they reproduce slowly and I may still have a few that are in there slowly increasing?

 

[salmonslayer]

You know thats a good Q. They say in some info that you need to treat the whole system,sump,skimmer etc to be safe. As far as we know they may jump 10ft. Just a little humor .
If you remove your shrimp etc can they hitchhike on you shrimp or your arm etc and be now in your QT system. May be i'm getting to annalistic sorry .

 

[Reef Monkey]

Has anybody ever ordered from the canadian pharmacy listed in the initial post? If so did you have any problems ordering through them?

 

[danno14]

Monkey- I ended up getting mine from my vet- Sumner Vet. They actually had some info that it was for treating "Acropora Red Bug", but didn't have the first clue what that meant or dosing parameters

GREAT folks to work with by the way.

I ended up with 6 23mg tabs for $53, tax included. Could probably have sourced it for less, but this was in stock and supports someone I like. If you call the pharm there and ask, you will likely receive the same high level of service.
Dan (Tapps- across the valley from you)

 

[Reef Monkey]

Dan-

I've never had to go to a vet how does that work with getting a prescription and filling said prescription. I know with a regular doctor you get charged for the office visit and then you get a prescription and get it filled, usually elsewhere. Do vets typically charge for office visit? Are you able to call and get a prescription over the phone?

 

[danno14]

I called in to the pharmacist and asked if I could get a referral from a Dr. She did all the legwork behind the scenes and had the meds waiting for me when I arrived. It did take her a while, as I mentioned- not their typical patient

If you have near term need, you are welcome to 1-2 of my tabs for what I paid.... drop me a pm. D