Saltwater Fish Killer

[fishmistress]

Hi All:

This is my first attempt at a saltwater tank. I have kept freshwater tanks for years, and currently have four planted freshwaters going. I started my saltwater about 5 months ago and have a really neat green worm-like coraline macro algae growing on a live rock. I also received my first coral from the Fish Geeks display at Sea Max at the Seattle Center a few weeks ago. I also got a rock with Christmas Tree Worms at the Fish Store a couple weeks ago. So far, I am able to keep all the challenging stuff alive, but not the fish! I had a Bi-Color Blenny. It developed spots and died. Then, I got a Royal Gramma. It also got the spots. So, I transferred everything but the fish and its rock cave, into a bigger, more stable tank. I tried the hyposalinity method, which killed the spots, but then the fish died yesterday.

My water here in Marysville was like RO water until a couple months ago. Now the pH of the tap is 8.2. I have a pH probe and calibrated it. I don't think the spots came from the water, but I think next time, I'll just not worry about stressing the fish out with treatments and just try to keep it happy with good food. That is, when I feel brave enough to try a fish again, LOL!

By the way, I had a small black and green snail ride in with some mussels I collected for dinner from Puget Sound, so I threw it in the saltwater tank since it was so tiny. It's actually still alive and cleaning things.

 

[Krish]

Welcome to RF!! :welcome:

Sorry to hear about your troubles. :doubt:. It almost wants to sounds like ich got the best of your fish. Were they quarentined prior to being introduced to your tank? Let us know...In the meantime, I moved your thread to Lee's forum. He's out fish specialist here.

 

[fishmistress]

I had the Gramma in quarantine and killed the poor fish. I feel bad. I should take the sand bed out and clean the whole thing I think. Maybe I'll try the sponge filter method next time, no furniture. I'm not sure how important RO water is but I can test it. I live on a third floor apartment and don't want to lug water up the stairs.

 

[TheKraken]

Welcome Susan!

I bought a tang on sale and it came with free saltwater ICK. Like everyone else I was excited when it went away in 2-3 days. About 3 weeks later it was back and I almost lost my fish. The fish went into a q tank with Cu and the reef was fallow for a full 8 weeks to stop the lifecycle of the ick. Best of luck!
-Paul

 

[Krish]

I had the Gramma in quarantine and killed the poor fish. I feel bad. I should take the sand bed out and clean the whole thing I think. Maybe I'll try the sponge filter method next time, no furniture. I'm not sure how important RO water is but I can test it. I live on a third floor apartment and don't want to lug water up the stairs.

At the very least, you should be using ro/di water (not just ro) unless your tap water has been tested and found suitable for aquarium use. Tap water can be pretty harsh sometimes as it can contain a lot of "nasties" so people usually don't take the chance. An example would be me testing my tap water years ago for nitrates and found out that it contained more nitrates than my test kit could read and that was only nitrates I tested for! I could only imagine what else was in there so at the very least, use ro/di water. If you don't want to lug all that water then maybe you can invest in a small ro/di unit and make your own water.

 

[fishmistress]

Welcome Susan!

I bought a tang on sale and it came with free saltwater ICK. Like everyone else I was excited when it went away in 2-3 days. About 3 weeks later it was back and I almost lost my fish. The fish went into a q tank with Cu and the reef was fallow for a full 8 weeks to stop the lifecycle of the ick. Best of luck!
-Paul

Hi Paul:

Yes, free ich. I didn't try copper in the QT tank.

Susan

 

[TheKraken]

In Susan's defense, I was using tap until a week ago when I rehabilitated a RO system and I got hooked with cheap fish on sale. I was lucky to find the ick guides and save the fish and have the support to leave the tank alone.

My cardinals, clowns, and bottyback are Ora or local. The tangs unfortunately off the reef.

 

[Chichas01]

A QT process for fish before going into your system is gospel. Believe it. I tempted fate for years and this last summer, it finally caught up to me. Invest in a decent RO/DI unit. It's a critical part of your system. I also noticed you are placing critters from Puget sound in your tank. Not sure that is such a great idea since you are running a tropical coral tank and not a cold water/temperate system. You could introduce something into your tank you don't want and animals from Puget sound will not survive long term in a tropical tank.

 

[user 26995]

Hi Susan, Welcome to RF. Don't let he losses discourag you. Read those links Lee posted. The are very helpful.

An RO/DI unit can install under your sink in the bathroom or kitchen. You can fill up a 13 gal trash can and mix salt water as you need it. I use RO/DI water for my fresh water tank too.

You should check out the North Sound Reefers Club forum. We are having a get together in a couple weeks. Oh...wow..next saturday the 27th actually. You would be more than welcome to come. There are a lot of people here willing to help. There is also a Puget Sound Aquarium Society frag swap next month. If anything you can meet alot of poeple and get a lot of good advise. And hear all the experiences good and bad others have had.

Again, Welcome to RF and look forward to meeting you.

 

[akunochi]

Yeah defintley tie into your clubs. The north Sound Reefers are a great group of knowledgeable people close to you and the PSAS is the oldest and largest club in the area. Don't get discouraged just learn what went wrong and keep trying until it works.

 

[fishmistress]

By the way, I didn't come here to argue or get put down, but to try and get some help for my fish WHICH I put in quarantine and tried the hyposalinity method. It stopped eating during the treatment.

 

[fishmistress]

True, the snail could do something wrong, but geez, it's still alive and cleaning the base all around the coral! It's a very small tidepool snail, so I think it can survive warmer temps. I only have one coral at this time and I'm just trying to see how to take care of it and make it happy. So far it's doing good. It had a worm parasite that was stinging it when I first got it. I took a hot needle and burned the sucker away and the dime size hole has now closed to pinhead.

 

[Frankie]

Hi All:

This is my first attempt at a saltwater tank. I have kept freshwater tanks for years, and currently have four planted freshwaters going. I started my saltwater about 5 months ago and have a really neat green worm-like coraline macro algae growing on a live rock. I also received my first coral from the Fish Geeks display at Sea Max at the Seattle Center a few weeks ago. I also got a rock with Christmas Tree Worms at the Fish Store a couple weeks ago. So far, I am able to keep all the challenging stuff alive, but not the fish! I had a Bi-Color Blenny. It developed spots and died. Then, I got a Royal Gramma. It also got the spots. So, I transferred everything but the fish and its rock cave, into a bigger, more stable tank. I tried the hyposalinity method, which killed the spots, but then the fish died yesterday.

My water here in Marysville was like RO water until a couple months ago. Now the pH of the tap is 8.2. I have a pH probe and calibrated it. I don't think the spots came from the water, but I think next time, I'll just not worry about stressing the fish out with treatments and just try to keep it happy with good food. That is, when I feel brave enough to try a fish again, LOL!

By the way, I had a small black and green snail ride in with some mussels I collected for dinner from Puget Sound, so I threw it in the saltwater tank since it was so tiny. It's actually still alive and cleaning things.

Hello Fishmistress, welcome to RF

I took the liberty of cleaning this thread up and would like to get it back on track. We won't be bashing Lee Here anymore please or I will shut this thread down. Lee is a good friend of mine. He can be a bit frank at times I admit. Hence your thread has been cleaned up.

Thanks for bringing the problems to the staff. We work hard here to provide a drama free site. So let's not feed into the negative and get back to helping you with your problem.


Being new to saltwater your going to find that most of your freshwater experiences will not apply to saltwater. The chemistry is different.


So in order for us to figure out the problem were going to need some more detailed information.

Please test the following water parameters and post them back here.


1. ammonia

2. nitrite

3. nitrate

4. PH

5. P04 (phosphate)

6. calcium

7. Alkalinity

8. Magnesium

All these are needed in order to understand your water makeup. without them were playing a guessing game.

Also I would like to know what your salinity is, what salt your using and how often your doing water changes.

Temperature of your system in the morning, after noon and evening are also a major concern. So if you can tell us those that would be great also.

As for taking stuff out of the ocean and adding it to your system I have to frown on that. Being your inexperience in the hobby you could potentialy be adding some very harmful critters without even realizing it.

I look forward to your reply and helping you become educated in your new hobby.

Frank

 

[fishmistress]

salinity and calcium

Hello Fishmistress, welcome to RF

I took the liberty of cleaning this thread up and would like to get it back on track. We won't be bashing Lee Here anymore please or I will shut this thread down. Lee is a good friend of mine. He can be a bit frank at times I admit. Hence your thread has been cleaned up.

Thanks for bringing the problems to the staff. We work hard here to provide a drama free site. So let's not feed into the negative and get back to helping you with your problem.


Being new to saltwater your going to find that most of your freshwater experiences will not apply to saltwater. The chemistry is different.


So in order for us to figure out the problem were going to need some more detailed information.

Please test the following water parameters and post them back here.





1. ammonia

2. nitrite

3. nitrate

4. PH

5. P04 (phosphate)

6. calcium

7. Alkalinity

8. Magnesium

All these are needed in order to understand your water makeup. without them were playing a guessing game.

Also I would like to know what your salinity is, what salt your using and how often your doing water changes.

Temperature of your system in the morning, after noon and evening are also a major concern. So if you can tell us those that would be great also.

As for taking stuff out of the ocean and adding it to your system I have to frown on that. Being your inexperience in the hobby you could potentialy be adding some very harmful critters without even realizing it.

I look forward to your reply and helping you become educated in your new hobby.

Frank


Well hi Frank:

It seems like Lee may have been in a bad mood when he read my post and replied.

I've had two fish and don't plan on getting any until I figure things out. I moved everything but the fish and a live rock into a bigger, more stable tank. The little CPR tank had big problems whenever the halide light turned on. I was using a fan to try and cool it. I set up the 29-gallon. When I stopped using the light, the temp got better and I was trying hyposalinity on the fish. Now I just have the 29 gallon and tore down the 17-gallon, until I need it for quarantining something. The temperature is much more stable. I'm sure the poor fish went through a lot. I'm not sure how the guy before me successfully ran the tank I bought from him, but he did, so I thought I could too.

I noticed tiny white critters running around on things. I'm not sure if this was what was on the fish.

My salinity is 1.024 in the tank that now just has a coral and Christmas Tree Worms. I am using a bucket of Kent Reef Salt. The calcium levels run extremely high with this mix, like 30. I rolled the bucket around to mix it better, thinking maybe the calcium settled to the top. It turns into concrete if it gets just the tiniest big of moisture. My pH goes down below 8.2. I add Alkalinity. I had a lot of calcium building up on everything when I was pouring it in. Now I am doing it a few drops at a time. I'm going to get an IV doser. I'm not sure why the calcium is so high. I got other salt mixes to try. Will keep you posted. I'm going to do a water change and feed coral.

As for adding stuff from the ocean, isn't that what we are already doing when we add wild fish, live rock collected from all over the world???

 

[fishmistress]

Oh yes, I do realize their is a lot chemistry involved. That's what I find interesting, how it's different. For my planted tanks, they like a bit of phosphates and nitrates, whereas the saltwater needs zero. The coral needs calcium. My freshwater shrimp need a bit of iodine. Sometimes the leaves of a plant crimp up and I have to figure out what it needs, like potassium, magnesium, iron, etc. Different organisms need different things. What makes them happy? What keeps the algae from growing all over my tank? What causes red tide in the ocean? What helps seaweed and macroalgae grow?

 

[Krish]

Oh yes, I do realize their is a lot chemistry involved. That's what I find interesting, how it's different. For my planted tanks, they like a bit of phosphates and nitrates, whereas the saltwater needs zero. The coral needs calcium. My freshwater shrimp need a bit of iodine. Sometimes the leaves of a plant crimp up and I have to figure out what it needs, like potassium, magnesium, iron, etc. Different organisms need different things. What makes them happy? What keeps the algae from growing all over my tank? What causes red tide in the ocean? What helps seaweed and macroalgae grow?

Yea, the stuff you need for planted tanks to grow is the same thing algae uses to grow (lighting and excess nutritents like nitrates and phosphates). Some people would set up a refugium underneath their stand and harvest an algae to grow there so that it can use up the available nutrients in the water keeping algae out of the tank and much as possible. Nitrates aren't that bad IF you aren't too concerned about keeping some corals and don't mind a bit of algae growth as fish can tolerate quite a bit of nitrates. It all depends what your taste is and what type of tank you are planning on keeping. We generally all shoot for un-detectable nitrates though which leaves you with all options open as to what you can keep in your tank.

 

[Frankie]

Look forward to reading those water parameters so I can be of more help to you.

Adding anything from the ocean into a closed system is very risky. Your aquarium, although harboring reef animals, is not in fact a real reef. It is a vain attempt at looking like a reef as best we can with the equipment and knowledge available to us. A reef has so many organisms that make it up I doubt anyone will ever achieve the real deal.

So we need to be extremely cautious in what we add to our aquariums or you can upset the balance in a hurry.

Most snails found on muscles are pyramids that feed on what we are trying to keep. Not very ideal to add one to the system.

I would suggest until you have all the test results to stick to your water changes weekly, and stop dosing anything. The salt you are using is good enough and will provide all your corals need for now. Most aquariums that are stocked don't need Ca++ supplementing. So your the reason why that is too high. And your test result on Ca++ is in error BTW. What test kit are you using?

Water changes are the best and usually only thing necessary to maintain water parameters with little to no corals.

A quick note:
Red Tide is described in the bible as a sign of End Of Days in Revelations. God will turn the oceans red, killing all life on earth. If you know what a full ocean red tide would do to our planet then you would agree with the scripture. All life would cease to exist if a massive red tide would to happen on the earth. Small ones in history have wiped out entire villages that live near the oceans.

Not only do red tide microbes ( phytoplankton ) in mass cause ocean death but the release of gas pollutants change the co2 in the atmosphere making it toxic to life on earth. Hope that answers your Q a bit




Frank

 

[NC2WA]

The calcium levels run extremely high with this mix, like 30.

First, Welcome to RF !

Second, what testing kit are you using to test Calcium levels ? As normal Ca level is 400-450ppm, not 30.

As far as figuring things out (ie, what needs what to keep fish or corals happy), may I suggest to pick up the following book by Robert Fenner, The Conscientious Marine Aquarist. I believe this will answer many of the questions you have and calm some the frustrations that newbies have when starting out in this hobby.

Keep the questions coming, and let us know how us we can help.

Kirk

 

[fishmistress]

Geez, I'm afraid to say anything. 30 on the scale. I'm using API. I've read the Conscientious Marine Aquarist, gone to two talks with Robert and met him. I don't have any questions right now.

 

[fishmistress]

Hi Frank. You are assuming that I am adding Ca, which I am not. I don't think my test kit is off. I've heard when the Ca is high, it's hard to get the pH up, which is my problem right now that I'd like to focus on. My Puget Sound snail is doing fine and is not attacking my one coral. No more needs to be said about my 1/4" snail. It's going to stay since it's earned it's place by respectfully eating all the junk around the post the coral is on.

That's very interesting thing about red tide and the Bible. The villagers died because they ate stuff from the ocean during red tide I assume.