Saltwater Fish Killer

[mojoreef]

Ok fishmistress you are putting up numbers that most of us are not used to so their is a bit of confusion. So 30 on the scale doesnt really register? calcium can be measured in PPM (parts per Million) or in ML's. So in ppm for natural sea water at 1024 you are looking for a cal of 380ppm. So I am not sure how API has created its scale but their should be a cros reference that came with the kit. See if you can find something that shows PPM or what the 30 level means.


In regards to overall water chemistry it is a bit complicated in SW as most every element effects or has a reaction with the other elements that make up your water. So does calcium have and effect of PH?? indirectly if it bonds to the alkalinity and comes out of solution, but then a good level of magnesium should protect that from happening, So its a if this and if that type of thing until we know all the parameters? make sence?

You are assuming that I am adding Ca, which I am not.

Sure you are, if you are mixing artifical salt you are adding calcium. You need to remember that almost every salt mix is made slightly different, some mixes come out with very low cal and alk, some come out with very high levels? So that comes into play also. AP! are decent for your begining tests, like ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, when you start looking at calc, alk, mag salifert are a better way to go as they are accurate and easy to use.

Mojo

 

[Krish]

Geez, I'm afraid to say anything.

Don't be. Just ask whatever questions you have and good piece of advice would be to take most things you read here with a grain of salt as the written word can be taken the wrong way. Feelings/emotions aren't easily portrayed in writting so the intentions behind what may be typed may not be what you are thinking. One thing I've learned here is that if you treat people with repect, you get it back.

 

[fishmistress]

30 x 20 = 600ppm Ca. I do have a pH probe. So, maybe I need a magnesium kit now, or just another salt mix! Yes, when I add Alkalinity, the Calcium seems to precipitate out, but that was when I was pouring it in, lol. Now that I've moved to another tank, the pH is better. I did a water change.

When tiny bits of food are fed, like "Coral Smoothie", how do people filter that out? I don't have a sump and don't want one, so any ideas for a sumpless tank would be great. I have a great protein skimmer and a small box filter.

 

[mojoreef]

Ok 600 is really high, so do you have an alkalinity test kit?? If so that would be the next main number we need.

Mike

 

[Krish]

30 x 20 = 600ppm Ca. I do have a pH probe. So, maybe I need a magnesium kit now, or just another salt mix! Yes, when I add Alkalinity, the Calcium seems to precipitate out, but that was when I was pouring it in, lol. Now that I've moved to another tank, the pH is better. I did a water change.

When tiny bits of food are fed, like "Coral Smoothie", how do people filter that out? I don't have a sump and don't want one, so any ideas for a sumpless tank would be great. I have a great protein skimmer and a small box filter.

What do you mean small box filter? Is that like a hang-on powerfilter? If so, what type are you using with what in it and also, which skimmer are you running? Lastly, what do you have for flow? I guess if you can, post a picture of your setup as it will help tons as pictures are worth a thousand words. Not so much on you water parameter levels, but for other things. Something that ran across my mind when I saw the 600ppm of calcium is how do you do your top off's like when water evaporates out of the tank? Are you replacing that with just freshwater or are you using a salt mix?

 

[fishmistress]

Ok, the seawater has Calcium 520ppm now and only 2 KH. How do I bring my KH up?

 

[DonW]

I know your thread was intended to be an into and has gotten a little off track. It doesn't seem to me like you've gotten a real handle on the basics. Although I'm sure a reef may be in your future I'd suggest getting a handle on the basics and leaving your tank as fish only for awhile. Since your not dosing CA my guess would be you have some testing errors, probably the kit itself. IMO I think you may want to step back a little and get the tank to a point where the fish do well. Maybe start off with a couple of green chromis and see how things go. Leave the reef chemistry sitting in the background while your learn the basics and the tank matures a little. I'd just watch SG, PH,Temp, Ammonia, nitrite and nitrates for awhile. Do your water changes weekly and get this tank stable them move on to testing and dosing the others like CA, Alk and MG.

Don

 

[Krish]

Ok, the seawater has Calcium 520ppm now and only 2 KH. How do I bring my KH up?

Still pretty high so do you top off with freshwater when the water evaporates out of the tank or a saltwater batch of make up water?

 

[fishmistress]

Ok, no brainer. I replace evaporation with freshwater so my salinity doesn't go up. I hate questions like this. Make me feel like people think I might be a real bimbo.

Hang-on power filter, small. Very large hang-on skimmer. Sorry, I threw out the box.

Question: What is the relationship of Calcium to Alkanity?

 

[fishmistress]

Thank you Don for your wise thoughts, but there is nothing wrong with my test Ca test kit. I can wish that my Ca levels were lower with other kits, but reality says that my Ca level is high.

 

[fishmistress]

Of course. Why would I bring my salinity level up with more marine water???

 

[fishmistress]

Is there anyone that can completely answer the Ca to Kh relationship?

 

[DonW]

Thank you Don for your wise thoughts, but there is nothing wrong with my test Ca test kit. I can wish that my Ca levels were lower with other kits, but reality says that my Ca level is high.

Unless you have verified the test kit then that would not be correct. If you are dosing or have some really screwed up salt, I guess this could be possible. My suggestion would be to do some water changes with a decent salt like instant ocean and not do any dosing or CA testing until you get a handle on the basic chemistry. I think you need to back up a little and get this tank stable as a fish only for awhile.

Don

 

[DonW]

Is there anyone that can completely answer the Ca to Kh relationship?

You can start reading here. There is way to much to reef chemistry to type here.
Calcium and Alkalinity by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com

Don

 

[mojoreef]

Ok, no brainer. I replace evaporation with freshwater so my salinity doesn't go up. I hate questions like this. Make me feel like people think I might be a real bimbo.

See what the issue here is that the numbers you are throwing out are either not standards or dont make alot of sence, so the first impression is that something is either going real wrong in your tank or your testing is flawed or your kits are inaccurate. Its not a personal things so dont sweat that.

Ok so how quickly did you go from the first reading of 600 down to 520?? The second is a DKH of 2 is brutally low, like a 1/4 of what it should be. This is also going to bring Magnesium into play so we will need to know that.

Here is what we are facing. If we come out and telly you just how to bring up your alk and thus your ph, and you readings are not dead on you will be killing things in your tank and we dont want that to happen. SO the only real way to get past this is to find out what is going on with the testing and what is or has happened in your tank to create this situation as it is really far from normal.

My best suggestion at this point is to take a water sample down to say BArrier Reef?? and have them do a battery of tests on all of the above. Then we can have a baseline to work from.

Mojo

 

[Krish]

Ok, no brainer. I replace evaporation with freshwater so my salinity doesn't go up. I hate questions like this. Make me feel like people think I might be a real bimbo.

Well, didn't mean to make you feel like a bimbo and you shouldn't "hate" questions like that especially when you have people trying to help you out. The reason I asked the question though was because you said this...

...and I did say I was a beginner.

So I figured, if you don't dose calcium and are a beginner as you stated, then quite possibly your calcium levels are rising because like a lot of newbies, you may be topping off with saltwater mix rather than fresh so I wanted to make sure you weren't in that boat. We can only assume this going on the numbers you presented which are high without ever dosing. Where is the extra calcium coming from??? This is my thought and the only thing I can conclude with is either the test kit is bad, you are getting false readings OR...You are topping off with a saltwater mix because it doesn't add up thus the reason I asked the question I did.

 

[user 26995]

Is there anyone that can completely answer the Ca to Kh relationship?

Check out the "Reef Aquarium Chemistry for Beginners Part 1-4" threads in the Reef Chemistry Discussion with Boomer forum. I learned everything I know about it in those threads.

 

[fishmistress]

It was 600ppm in the past. I haven't bothered to test lately...so moving on. I'm going to try another salt mix Mojo. Will write back when its mixed.

 

[fishmistress]

Thanks Don. I am reading so far that magnesium prevents calcium from building up on stuff when it precipitates out, as it did quite heavily when I was adding a lot of Alkalinity.