sick fish i think

[fishermann]

Steve Are you saying that that fish cannot rid himself of the ich to where it is not an issue to it or the tank. Ich well always be present in the system is what I meant to say unless every fish he buys, he treats to rid of it, which no one does even if they quarantine. It could come in even on rock fresh out of someone elses tank or a number of ways. I have a pwdr blue [which as I'm sure you know is notorius for getting ich] that got itpretty bad when I first got him 4 yrs ago, which is nothing new for them and he was in a QT tank> I knew the tank was good and within a couple months he was VISIABLY rid of the ich on his own. He has been with me now for 4yrs and is doing just fine, and I did not treat him. I do agree that if this Gramma started having ich after 3-4 weeks he has come under stress from something and he should either try to find the reason or get him out and treat in QT, but I would not treat all the fish in the tank if they aren't showing any signs.

 

[fishermann]

In a BB QT tank you can purchase one of the little air driven sponge filters and use it, just rince the sponge frequently. You can add some 1 1/2" pvc pipe short pieces so the fish can have a few places to hide and relax in also.

 

[steve-s]

Steve Are you saying that that fish cannot rid himself of the ich to where it is not an issue to it or the tank.

Nope, aquired immunity is possible, just not preferable. The opportunity for the parasite to be transfered with the fish to the main tank if untreated is likley although not guaranteed. If a fish is in a QT and the parsite can be eradictaed, "waiting it out" is not ideal.

Ich well always be present in the system is what I meant to say unless every fish he buys, he treats to rid of it

Your original statement did not suggest that, hence my reply.

Cheers
Steve

 

[fishermann]

Well as in my othe post, there are several ways of doing things that work. There are alot of bad things within us that can show up under stress, and all I'm saying is that it would be pretty hard to clear your tank of all things bad and I believe in letting the fish fight it off on his own if he shows signs of doing it, if not then treat, but healthy animals like us well do just fine by keeping them healthy. This is my way and may not be the way he wants to do it, but that is what is GREAT! about sites like this is to throw these different ways of doing things out there and let people decide for themselves, there is more ways then one to be successful. Smiles

 

[fishermann]

Also not to hyjack this thread but We ought to get together sometime, I would like to see your tank and we aren't that far from each other. I am just below Bellingham in Anacortes.

 

[steve-s]

....but that is what is GREAT! about sites like this is to throw these different ways of doing things out there and let people decide for themselves, there is more ways then one to be successful. Smiles

LOL.. I always love that saying.

Cheers
Steve

 

[Paul B]

Nope, aquired immunity is possible, just not preferable. The opportunity for the parasite to be transfered with the fish to the main tank if untreated is likley although not guaranteed. If a fish is in a QT and the parsite can be eradictaed, "waiting it out" is not ideal.

I have to agree with Steve on this (kind of) In most tanks you should strive to keep the ich paracite out of your tank. It is much easier to keep it out than to try to eradicate it later. Ich is a very simple disease to cure just not in a reef tank. My particular reef is immune to ich (I don't know why) but for the first ten years it was not. We did not quarintine in the early days of this hobby and did not understand the paracite as well as we do now. We just kept copper in our tanks. (actually it was twenty pennies to the gallon before liquid copper was invented) Now if you just quarintine properly you will have no problems.
Have a great ich free day.
Paul

 

[fishermann]

Agreed, I just think it is pretty hard to keep it out completely and I would guess more people donot quarantine then do, in fact I know that to be true, also it can get in other then just on fish. All I was posting is that a tank can exist with it very easily if the water parims are kept in good conditions and it is not neccessary to sterile your tank of it. I would venture to say there are far more tanks running for many years that have ich in them with none noticable on the fish then sterile of the parisite. To be honest every now and then my pwdr blue gets one or two spots and it makes me start looking for the reason and I take pretty good care of my tank. He is kinda like the canary in a mine thing, and he is one of the most beautiful pwdr blues I have ever seen if I do say so myself. LOL

 

[fishermann]

Also I forgot I wanted to mention that all of my other fish a CB butterfly, Kole tang, pr clowns, 4 bartlett anthias have never in numerous years shown any sigh of having ich on them.

 

[Paul B]

All I was posting is that a tank can exist with it very easily if the water parims are kept in good conditions and it is not neccessary to sterile your tank of it. I would venture to say there are far more tanks running for many years that have ich in them with none noticable on the fish then sterile of the parisite.

John, I agree with you. Ich has been hapilly living in my reef for about 25 years. How do I know? because I do not quarintine, never have (but you should) I add fish all the time from stores and from the sea. I have no problem adding fish with obvious ich. My fish are immune. The vast majority of fish are not, so don't do this. I know it is in my reef because first of all it is 35 years old and the fish live old enough to die of old age which is around 12 or in one case 18. When one of my fish is near the end of it's life (from old age) it will exhibit ich, big time. Then it will die. This has been going on for many years with many fish. I know what the experts say about ich. I know some of the experts, some of them came to see my tank and none of them has an old tank. I also know all about the ich life cycle. I believe IMO and only my opinion that some paracites are always in my reef, happilly infecting fish with a few tromphants which reproduce but for some reason never reach epidemic proportions. I am sure that eventually they die out only to be replaced by more paracites the next time I add fish. Occasionally I will see a few spots on a fish. Invariably, it will disappear.
As I said, don't do what I do. My reef is very old and I have been doing this over 50 years. In the beginning I lost many fish to ich. I almost gave up the hobby. I always tell people to quarintine and keep the paracite out of your tank. I have no Idea why my fish are immune but yours are most likely not.
Have a great day.
Paul

 

[fishermann]

Yeah I hear you Paul, I have seen pics of your tank and have read about it on other post on different subjects. My fish also have been wirh me for quite a while as posted above but definitely not for as long as eighteen yrs although most are going on 6. Gooday

 

[skywatcher]

I am just went thru all heck trying to set up my quarantine last minute. I won't drag you thru the deails but my suggestion is to get the QT tank up as fast as possible so it can start to cycle. Otherwise you will end up like me doing water chages at least once a day because then you are not only dealing with the ich you will also be dealing with ammonia, nitrite and nitrate spikes.

You may find it worthwhile in the future to keep some extra BioMax and filter sponge in your tank. That way it cam be added to your hospital tank without worry of ammonia spikes.

 

[MarineTeng]

well, thanks for all the thoughts, i have a question though, when quarentining fish intially, which i think i'm going to start doing, do you hyposalinity them for a couples weeks even if they don't show ich just to make sure they don't have it? when do you start doing it if you do? (like right after you get them or a week after...etc?)
as of now, i'm going to remove the cheato and leave the crushed coral in since that's the only filtration availible at the moment, should i still go ahead with the hyposalinity?

 

[fishermann]

You are going to get people saying yes and no, personally I would do nothing to the fish except observe him for 3 or 4 weeks, but like Steve is saying to make sure he has no ich you would have to treat, personally I think a healthy fish has no problems handling ich as I and Paul have shown above. It is in your tank now so you would have to remove all and treat and let your display tank parrisites die off from lack of a host or you well still have it in that tank, and then make sure you quarantine everything in the future that you add, including rock or anything that could have any live parisite riding on it.

 

[MarineTeng]

is there anyway to avoid doing this with corals? fw dip or anything, cause won't that mean that i'll need a somewhat decent light on the QT too then

 

[fishermann]

I don't really know how to answer that, but anycoral that comes out of a tank with fish in it could I guess have some ich stuck in a crevice on it somewhere, and if in your tanks current it was to get dislodged and find a host then you are back to square one. Probably not likely but could happen. Any dip would have to help especially if you swished it around in the dip.

 

[Paul B]

For corals it is different. I would put them in fresh seawater for a few hours then remove the coral from that and put it in different fresh water for a day or so. They remove the coral from that water and put it in your tank. Paracites will not live on corals but they could hitch a ride on them for a while. If you change the water a few times by completely removing the coral from the water and putting it in different water you should be safe. Of course it would be better to leave the coral in a different tank for a few weeks but that is not always practical.
Paul

 

[MarineTeng]

For corals it is different. I would put them in fresh seawater for a few hours then remove the coral from that and put it in different fresh water for a day or so.

i assume you mean fresh sea water the second time around right? just clarrifying

 

[Paul B]

Yes I meant fresh seawater. Thanks
Paul

 

[steve-s]

do you hyposalinity them for a couples weeks even if they don't show ich just to make sure they don't have it? when do you start doing it if you do? (like right after you get them or a week after...etc?)

You can prophylactically treat the fish for C irritans, some recommend it and some don't. I would not suggest it be done right from the start though. At least observe the fish for a few weeks to ensure nothing else is amiss first. Once a hypo treatment is started, you can't do a 180 and treat something different that conflicts with hyposalinity. If C, irritans is present then you would treat that right away.

as of now, i'm going to remove the cheato and leave the crushed coral in since that's the only filtration availible at the moment, should i still go ahead with the hyposalinity?

You have sick fish so obviosly you need to treat them and the sooner the better. The CC is not going to hamper your success, it will just make water quality a little unmanagable once the fauna within it begins to die off. Be sure you have plenty of extra SW perpared for water changes. I think you will make a very large mistake by not treating all fish within the system. Don't fall into the trap of "sink or swim". You have the means to treat the fish and be sure the problem is erradicated. To go through all this only to place the fish back into an infested system seems rather pointless. The odds are greatly stacked against aquired immunity remaining in tact and while Paul has shown an anomyly, it is the exception, not the norm. Even if the fish in your current system remain symptom free for the time being, they will still feed the problem and it will continue to persist. That I will guarantee.

Dipping corals will not affect an encysted parasite, you'll be wasting your time.

Cheers
Steve