Starting a Reef tank thoughts and discussion
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Sasquatch
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hmm reminds me of the brain surgeon that likes to cut with the other hand for fun lol
There are many ways to skin a cat. I usually start at the tail and work forward but that's another subject.
I don't see much success for a newbie that goes out and buys a 20g tank, some sps and goes for it.
I do see some success with starting at one end of the hobby that is typically easier and working one's self up to the more difficlut levels.
If a reef tank is the goal then just keep that in mind as you're making your choices for fish and equipment. Just because it's a "fish only" system doesn't mean you have to go and buy a miniatus or panther grouper and later mix them with some anthias. Nor do you have to run your NO3 to unacceptable levels.
I don't see much success for a newbie that goes out and buys a 20g tank, some sps and goes for it.
I do see some success with starting at one end of the hobby that is typically easier and working one's self up to the more difficlut levels.
If a reef tank is the goal then just keep that in mind as you're making your choices for fish and equipment. Just because it's a "fish only" system doesn't mean you have to go and buy a miniatus or panther grouper and later mix them with some anthias. Nor do you have to run your NO3 to unacceptable levels.
Ok so to do a bit of a summery. When keeping a reef tank their are alot of things to learn and know about. One has to under stand the various cycles of bacteria as it relates to the Nitrogen cycle. Their is an amount of water chemistry knowledge required so that you can keep good water for the inhabitants. Their is literally a million different types and models of equipment associated with keeping reef tanks. And then you get into the different types of corals and their requirements and their ability to live with each other, and the same applies with fish.
So that all boils down to a huge amount of information for anyone to absorb all at once. So yes it is easy to do some reading and copy a sucessfull reefers setup and jump right in, but the problem is that you dont know the signs, or the way things work to be able to see issues coming prior to them getting out of control. So I think its pretty easy to say that its best to learn amounts about whats happening and while doing that get your feet wet by doing it in a progressive manner.
So what most experenced reefers believe is the natural is to go from FO with LR then to softie/lps style tank and then move towards a sps style tank. Now this isnt what folks have to do (as many will be happy staying at any given level) but its kind of understood.
A Fish Only tank.= Allows you to get your feet wet and while doing so get an understanding of general water testing. A look at water flow and the dealing with the general maintenance required in order to keep your water quality in good condition. It allows you to get in with out having to buy a alot of equipment all at once also. You still have to buy the tank, rock, substraight (if wanted), possibly running a sump, protein skimmer and other equipment folks run. I would also say that it gives you time to add to your knowledge base while your tank cycles through its bacterial cycle and algal cycle and most importantly allows the person to work out the issues, because as what most will tell you is that what reef tank need more then anything is stability, no big swings in PH, temp, alk, cal and so on and so on. Every piece of equipment you add is going to take an amount of time to dial in and I cant tell you how many tanks get killed in this process.
Softie/LPS tank = So when entering this stage one can say that they have kept a FO tank while it goes through its moron cycle, the tank itself is balanced in terms of bacterial population and algal swing. While going through this the person has a good understanding of how bacteria works, how to maintain thier tank in terms of dealing with detritus and waste and have a good handle on keeping their water quality high. They have also worked out the the equipment on the tank and its all in perfect working condition.
So now we move forward. Now when you are going to add corals such as softies and LPS corals their are a few more requirements needed SO lets have at it.
Mojo
So that all boils down to a huge amount of information for anyone to absorb all at once. So yes it is easy to do some reading and copy a sucessfull reefers setup and jump right in, but the problem is that you dont know the signs, or the way things work to be able to see issues coming prior to them getting out of control. So I think its pretty easy to say that its best to learn amounts about whats happening and while doing that get your feet wet by doing it in a progressive manner.
So what most experenced reefers believe is the natural is to go from FO with LR then to softie/lps style tank and then move towards a sps style tank. Now this isnt what folks have to do (as many will be happy staying at any given level) but its kind of understood.
A Fish Only tank.= Allows you to get your feet wet and while doing so get an understanding of general water testing. A look at water flow and the dealing with the general maintenance required in order to keep your water quality in good condition. It allows you to get in with out having to buy a alot of equipment all at once also. You still have to buy the tank, rock, substraight (if wanted), possibly running a sump, protein skimmer and other equipment folks run. I would also say that it gives you time to add to your knowledge base while your tank cycles through its bacterial cycle and algal cycle and most importantly allows the person to work out the issues, because as what most will tell you is that what reef tank need more then anything is stability, no big swings in PH, temp, alk, cal and so on and so on. Every piece of equipment you add is going to take an amount of time to dial in and I cant tell you how many tanks get killed in this process.
Softie/LPS tank = So when entering this stage one can say that they have kept a FO tank while it goes through its moron cycle, the tank itself is balanced in terms of bacterial population and algal swing. While going through this the person has a good understanding of how bacteria works, how to maintain thier tank in terms of dealing with detritus and waste and have a good handle on keeping their water quality high. They have also worked out the the equipment on the tank and its all in perfect working condition.
So now we move forward. Now when you are going to add corals such as softies and LPS corals their are a few more requirements needed SO lets have at it.
Mojo
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My first thought was figure out the right type of flow and what equipment to get to accomplish it.
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haha...oh darn...well I can work on that during my lunch break
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I would guess that having a FOWLR system, you already have a good amount of flow in the tank so as not to collect detritus on the tank floor. Flow is hopefully enough to keep it suspended and going into the overflow to your filtration, or at least to a convenient corner where it can be siphoned easily. This should be ample flow for most soft coral such as mushrooms, xenias, neptheas, sinularias, toadstools, zoas and palys to name a few.
Mushrooms and xenias are going to like lower flow than most soft coral.
Neptheas, sinularias, toadstools in my experience like to be in an indirect heavier flow area.
Zoanthids and palythoas will range from low flow to medium/high flow.
In a tank with higher flow you can usually find a place for all these corals.
Strategically placed powerheads are usually sufficient for accomplishing the flow needed for most soft coral.
Mushrooms and xenias are going to like lower flow than most soft coral.
Neptheas, sinularias, toadstools in my experience like to be in an indirect heavier flow area.
Zoanthids and palythoas will range from low flow to medium/high flow.
In a tank with higher flow you can usually find a place for all these corals.
Strategically placed powerheads are usually sufficient for accomplishing the flow needed for most soft coral.
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Lighting is another factor that needs to be considered. In a FOWLR system you could probably get by with compact fluorescents. With some soft coral, you could still get by with compact fluorescents, but most will do better in growth and color with High Output T-5’s. You can customize the lighting color, or warmth, to your liking with T5s too. They can really bring out the great colors of your coral.
Sasquatch
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and go through yet another algae cycle lol
Was that progression in the same tank, or did you set up a new tank for each step?I would agree with QT fish when getting fish along with proper water management. Unfortunately, water management takes time to understand and to develop and with the introduction of fish it makes this even more crucial to understand it. When I was a newbie close to 15 yrs ago, I started out with fish and didnt touch corals until I had several years under my belt. When I made the leap to corals, I started with easy corals (softie, leathers) then worked up to LPS and finally SPS. But to get to the point I felt comfortable with SPS took almost 10yrs.
NC2WA
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New tank and taking the knowledge I had learn and applying it to the tank
NC2WA
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some, but I had 4 tanks running at once... hahahahahahahahah...
now I just have one HUGE tank and several QTs..
now I just have one HUGE tank and several QTs..
Katchupoy
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Im late to join, but the direction of going FO only as the initial stage is a very good plan.... While at it, can we post what kind of fish (reef safe) we can keep so that we dont have to get rid of it because its not compatible. I believe its not considered cross dresser since you are actually going to (still) keep the fish/es after adding corals.
May I also suggest, if we can categorize the reef safe fishes as "hardy", "less hardy" and "think twice before you buy" category.
Hope this helps.
Ok while going through your initial start up you have kept your tank a FO with live rock, its been all cycled and you have gone through the bacterial and algal cycles, now were looking to add some softies. For me I always tell folks at this stage that if your ultimate goal is to have a SPS tank your choice in softies can be a make it or break it down the road. SO one can go straight from FO to SPS or soties as their are only a few differences required and a few things that need to be talked about so lets have a bit of a talk about that.
So the obvious one is that SPS are are very relient on Photosysnthisis (98%) so good lighting is a major requirement. But their are a few others, what are they??
Also thier are alot of things that make keeping softies and SPS in the same tank can have issues, so what are the issues and what can be done in order to try to get past them??
MOjo
So the obvious one is that SPS are are very relient on Photosysnthisis (98%) so good lighting is a major requirement. But their are a few others, what are they??
Also thier are alot of things that make keeping softies and SPS in the same tank can have issues, so what are the issues and what can be done in order to try to get past them??
MOjo
I would like to take exception to the concept of initially adding softies to a tank that one eventually hoped to convert to SPS. Softies and SPS are generally not a compatible mixture, and softies can vevery difficult to remove from a tank when once established.
My preference is to put things in that you plan on keeping for the duration.
My preference is to put things in that you plan on keeping for the duration.
Exception taken Dnjan, but the reality is that you can, you can add virtually any softie BUT each one comes with a red strings attached, so lets not just kind of say all softies but lets dig a little deeper.
One thing that should be known is that SPS and Soft corals operate differently. SPS tend to have strategies for offence and defence that are basically I will grow higher and faster and thus over shadow you, or they will grow out low and fast and not give you any area to settle out. Softies on the other hand are far more equipt to attach and defend, they use a broad array of chemical warfare and have other means such as stinging tenticles, or even so far as to put out their guts and dissolve other corals from the outside in. So what do we have to do or think about when adding these???
Mike
One thing that should be known is that SPS and Soft corals operate differently. SPS tend to have strategies for offence and defence that are basically I will grow higher and faster and thus over shadow you, or they will grow out low and fast and not give you any area to settle out. Softies on the other hand are far more equipt to attach and defend, they use a broad array of chemical warfare and have other means such as stinging tenticles, or even so far as to put out their guts and dissolve other corals from the outside in. So what do we have to do or think about when adding these???
Mike
I suggest the starting point should be only adding what you expect to keep for the duration. So, if you want to add a softie that tends to be especially agressive, you should not only provide enough space, but also the habitit that will leave the softie wanting to stay put rather than to look for a better place.
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Most people, especially new people to the hobby, dont know yet what they want to keep. I started with soft coral thinking that thats all I was going to do. Yeah! So I now have sps in a tank that was primarily softies. I still have a few soft coral in that tank. If someone was to do their research first...then yeah, start with what you plan to keep, but most people are not going to do that. Or they do and soft coral is what they decide on and then change their mind later. I dont think it is that hard to change from soft coral to sps down the road. I went the long way around. I started with the minimal lighting and worked up to t5s then MH's and on to LEDs. Granted thats not very economical, but I got some good deals.
I feel the direction I went with starting with soft coral and working my way up to lps and then sps, was the best way to go for me. It helped me learn more about the requirements of specific coral and allowed my system to mature to the point that it has to allow me to keep sps now. So I dont see any harm in starting with soft coral. You just need to be aware that you will be passing them on at a later date. Most of them are not that difficult to get off your rock. Except mushrooms... Or like me, just start another tank and move them. I would suggest to anyone starting out, to get the best lighting, either MH's w/T5's or LED's right off the bat. You can keep soft coral as well as SPS with it so if you do start with soft coral decide to go to SPS, you wont need to change your lighting.
I feel the direction I went with starting with soft coral and working my way up to lps and then sps, was the best way to go for me. It helped me learn more about the requirements of specific coral and allowed my system to mature to the point that it has to allow me to keep sps now. So I dont see any harm in starting with soft coral. You just need to be aware that you will be passing them on at a later date. Most of them are not that difficult to get off your rock. Except mushrooms... Or like me, just start another tank and move them. I would suggest to anyone starting out, to get the best lighting, either MH's w/T5's or LED's right off the bat. You can keep soft coral as well as SPS with it so if you do start with soft coral decide to go to SPS, you wont need to change your lighting.
