Starting the process

[gotfish]

I've decided on the tank which will be a 75g RR. This is going to be a mixed reef with only a couple sps hopefully. I've ordered a 48" nova extreme pro 6x54. After this point, my mind is struggling to grasp what is next. I'm doing well with my 29g biocube but since that's an all in one, it's pretty simple for me to do what is necessary to keep stuff alive.

I've got a 20g that I'd like to use as my sump/fuge. Is that gonna be big enough? What size of return pump will I need? Anyone have suggestions on a good in sump skimmer in the $150-$200 range? I was looking at water pumps and was thinking of going with maybe 2 koralia 1's. Those along with a Rena xp2 for chemical filtration or is there a way to do charcoal in the sump/fuge? Will that be enough water movement? I've got 30# of LR in my biocube and was gonna cycle the tank with 50# of LR then add in the stuff I already have so the tank should have around 80# of LR. Is the canister filter even necessary? Anything else I may be missing?

Thanks for reading long enough to answer my questions.

 

[lizardarm]

A 20 gallon is fine as long as it's a 20 Tall/High, not a 20 long. Return pump in the 1000 gallon per hour range should be fine. Good in-sump skimmer in that price range- ReefOctopus NW-150, skims decent right out of the box, but if you do the mesh mod on it, it kicks arse. Korillia 1's in a 75 gallon tank, you won't even be able to notice the flow; shoot for Korillia 3's or 4's. I've got a Korillia 2 in a 56 gallon tank and it's way not enough flow. You can do charcoal (activated carbon) in a phosban reactor or other similar reactor. I'd shoot for a minimum of the 80 lbs of live rock that you're looking at there and add another 10-20 lbs for good measure. No, the canister filter is not necessary, most people believe that they only cause problems in a reef tank (nitrates). You can instead use filter socks in the sump (have the overflow discharge into them) which can be changed out regularly and much more easily than the media in a canister filter.
-Chris

 

[JeffGil]

I've got a 72g bowfront set up with an Octopus NW-150 (kicks a$$) and a 20g long sump--I wish I had used a larger sump. Every day we lose about a gallon and a half to two gallons due to evaporation and I don't have the auto top-off hooked up yet which makes it a real pain to keep the return pump section full. You can see the sump I made here: http://www.reeffrontiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36244. It's working fine, but I still wish it was larger to accomodate a larger fuge and more water in the return section to handle evaporation better.

If you're going to create a sump like that--move the baffles 1" to the left to accomodate the Octopus skimmer. I had to move mine for it to fit as I built the sump before the skimmer arrived and it didn't fit when I got it :-(

I tried to use a strong return pump T'ing off at a squid to create some kind of cool flow, but it didn't work and basically just makes micro bubbles. I think as long as the return pump is pumping about the same (a little less is better) than your overlflow is rated for (take the rating with a grain of salt and test) then you're good--taking head into account for the return pump. Return pumps don't really do anything for flow. We have 2 koralia 3's going right now and it's creating decent flow (we purchased 4 but only ended up using 2 for now).

If I was going to do it again--and I'm about to with a 54g corner tank waiting to be refurbished in my garage--I'd use a larger sump and avoid the squid unless it was for a closed loop. The Octopus skimmer is a good one though.

 

[JeffGil]

p.s. here's my tank as of right now--one week old after merging two 20g talls: http://www.reeffrontiers.com/photos_members/showphoto.php?photo=7398&cat=2

 

[gotfish]

Where did you buy the skimmer from, the only place I found was in the UK? It is a 20H, how high will I need to do the baffles?

 

[JeffGil]

I got it from Bulk Reef Supply:
1 x OCT-NW-150 Octopus Needlewheel Skimmer = $168.99

It was comparitively cheap and works like a champ: http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/Prote...Octopus-Needlewheel-Skimmer/product_info.html

For the baffle height, you have to figure out how many gallons you want the sump to handle and then factor in how much water is going to drain into the sump when you shut the power off so it doesn't overflow. I used a volume calculator in the other thread I posted to figure it out and so far its been right on the money.

 

[gotfish]

So if the power goes out and I've got 2 inches of drop before my tank stops draining, the sump has to have that much room to take up the difference is what you're saying. The overflow itself if free flowing correct? There is no pump from the overflow to the sump, just a pump from the sump to the tank correct? You determine the water level in the sump by how far down into the sump the overflow pipe extends as well as the baffling? As you can see, I don't really know how these things work. Without seeing the stuff, I have a difficult time picturing stuff I read online. I'm one of those type that if you put something in front of me, I can figure out how it works easily.

 

[JeffGil]

Check out the attached .jpg of my sump--you'll need to modify the measurements for yours and your baffle height, but I used those measurements and this calculator to determine how much water would be in the sump during normal operation (top of the baffle nearest the return pump) and then how much room I'd have for water draining out of the tank from the overflow when the power is shut off. My overflow box and hose don't hold much water, but you need to consider how much water is going to drain out of the tank through the overflow when the pump shuts off--how deep is your overflow level in the tank I mean. I figured it was about an inch below normal water level with the pump turned off and then figured out how much water 1" deep in a 72g tank is using the calculator--that plus the amount in the overflow, overflow drain tube, and skimmer is the amount of room you need available in your sump when you configure the baffles for the operating depth or else it will overflow when the power goes off.

I also drilled anti-siphon holes in my return tubes coming from the return pump and installed a check valve on the return pipe itself. I also put in ball valves on both the overflow and return pipes to help control the water coming into the sump. Check valves can fail so I added the ball valve and anti-siphon holes for insurance. I ended up having to use the ball valve on the overflow tube to control the amount of water the overflow was dumping in the sump because the squid really put a hit on the gph my return pump was getting back into the display.

I've got pictures of all of this somewhere, if it would help I can post them.

p.s. when you do your plumbing don't forget unions for everything that you might want to take off for whatever reason later so you don't have to cut your pipes.

 

[gotfish]

This is starting to make sense now. As far as that skimmer goes, how far into the water does it need to be sitting?

 

[JeffGil]

The skimmer needs to operate in a water depth that allows the microbubbles to percoloate up to the bottom of the collection cup after about 5 minutes of starting up--I think. When you first start it, nothing really happens. It takes about 5 minutes for it to really get going and then after a while you start getting skimmate (maybe the next day). There aren't very good instructions (read: really crappy instructions) with these things and I learned that through trial and error. It takes a while for the bubbles to really catch anything and starting with the operating water level above the bottom of the collection cup inside the skimmer gives you watery skimmate.

These in-sump skimmers come with an adjustable water level thingie-mabob so if your water level inside the skimmer is too low, just raise up the water level adjustment tube. If your water level in the sump is too high, you'll need to create a platform in your sump for the skimmer to sit on. It's really hard to explain unless you're looking at it in operation. If the water level inside the skimmer is above the bottom of the collection cup--it's too high. My Octopus is running in 9" of water and I need to raise the water level height adjustment tube up a bit for best results.

p.s. to fit that Octopus skimmer in your sump, you'll need a section at least 9"x12" and around 9" deep at a minimum. Don't make the same mistake I made and build a sump too small for it before it arrives and then have to start moving baffles to fit it in

 

[lizardarm]

For a Reef Octopus NW-150 you're looking at having it sit in about six inches of water. Regardless of what your baffle height is for the skimmer section (assuming it's taller than six inches) you can put your skimmer on a stand (plastic box with holes) to adjust the operating depth of the skimmer.
You can use the calculator linked to above also to figure out how much water is going to drain out of your display tank (in gallons). The water will drain down to the standpipe, or to the bottom of the teeth in your overflow box if your standpipe is considerably lower; so just use your tanks width and length, then for depth you'd use the number of inches that the water will drop (say two inches for example). That will give you the number of gallons that your sump has to be able to absorb without overflowing.

 

[dailydriven911]

Hey Kerry let me know if you need any help setting up the 75g!

 

[gotfish]

Hey Kerry let me know if you need any help setting up the 75g!

Will do.

Another question. I'm looking at return pumps. Would a mag 5 be enough or should I got with a 7? The overflow is a megaflow which is rated at 600gph. I'm thinking it's probably gonna be 4' or so from pump to the top of the return pipe.

 

[roscoe]

Mag 5 or 7 would be good. You want it to go through your sump/refugium slowly so the water has a longer dwell time in your skimmer and fuge to export the nutrients. Heck I'm sumpless at the moment:badgrin:. I'm just a little too lazy to take down the tank, reaquascape, do the plumbing and so on and so forth plus my SPS are doing awesome brightly colored and growing fast so why change what is doing good. Although I have to say even without a sump and top notch skimmer (I have a CPR bak pak w/mesh mod mj1200) my nitrate and phosphates are pretty much undetectable. All other water parameters are on point. Hey if you ever need any help just holla at me or PM me. Have a good one bro!!!

Sarang

 

[JeffGil]

Yep, for the skimmer 6" probably would do--as long as the pump itself is covered you're good. Here's a pic of my skimmer in action in 9" of water (that skimmer chamber is 9" of water deep, and in a 9"x12" sump chamber--the skimmer body itself is 6" in diameter):

 

[dnjan]

So if the power goes out and I've got 2 inches of drop before my tank stops draining

That is a fairly large drop in the main tank (before the tank stops draining). I would locate a return (or at least drill an anti-siphon hole or two) closer to the water surface.