Stomatopod (Mantis Shrimp) Workshop

[Krish]

Great info and amazing videos Curt!!! Keep up the good work

 

[NaH2O]

Curt - I loved reading Dr. Roy's explaination. It was too bad folks jumped to the conclusion that the video was for pleasure and not research . I thought this part of Dr. Roy's statements was very interesting:

What you did not see was that the stomatopod continued to pound the octopus for about 25 minutes, long after it was initially disabled, and then killed. Several times during this period, the stomatopod appeared to sample the octopus, jumped back and extensively cleaned its mouth parts. Finally, it ate the entire corpse. We watched the stomatopod for several days and it seemed no worse for the meal. When offered another blue-ring, it also attacked and ate it suggesting that it had not learned to avoid them. In fact, there seemed to be no reason to.

I'll be very interested in the follow up research he does, especially how the mantis is processing the toxin.

The picture of the mantis eyes is awesome. The stomatopod was on Animal Planet's Most Extreme for its vision. I believe it was number 2 on the countdown.

 

[Curtswearing]

I'll be very interested in the follow up research he does, especially how the mantis is processing the toxin.

There is no known antivenom for TTX poisoning from blue-rings. O.s. can do something that no other marine animal or humans can do. This research will hopefully prove more useful than planned.

 

[wpecoul]

OK, I have what I hope isn't too dumb of a question - where can I get a nano-suitable mantis online? I haven't searched everywhere, but I haven't yet found a vendor.
Thanks,
Will

 

[NaH2O]

There is no known antivenom for TTX poisoning from blue-rings. O.s. can do something that no other marine animal or humans can do. This research will hopefully prove more useful than planned.

I never thought of it from that standpoint!

 

[Elmo18]

My...what big eyes you Mantis shrimp...have....

Awesome thread Curt!

Best,
Ilham

 

[Curtswearing]

My...what big eyes you Mantis shrimp...have....

LOL!!!

OK, I have what I hope isn't too dumb of a question - where can I get a nano-suitable mantis online? I haven't searched everywhere, but I haven't yet found a vendor.

Actually, that's a great question because most of the vendor's don't put them on their web pages.

Liveaquaria.com sometimes puts them on their webpage.
Inlandaquatics.com never puts them on their webpage but sometimes has them and you can call.
Fishsupply.com has had them in the past.
Tampabaysaltwater.com has N. Wennerae usually if you have a very small nano (5~10 gallons)

Believe it or not, if you have a specific species in mind, your LFS can often be your best bet. They can put an order in with the wholesalers. Additionally, putting the word out in local club forums or here can be useful as well.

 

[sandlot13]

great thread curt!!!! I have been an avid stomatopod lover for the past few years, and have been keeping them over the past year. I will be tagging along on this thread, and if you need any help with anything (research and what not) Id be willing to help. Keep up the good work!

Also, i love this thread cause I finally have a place where all of my favorite mantis videos can be found without having to search the internet each time to show my roommates!

 

[Curtswearing]

I'm glad you're enjoying it. Feel free to make any comments if you feel I've left something out.

 

[Maxx]

Great video Curt....very cool. Oddly enough, I just aquired a tiny mantis myself. Here are the pics...


This one is pretty much life size

Close up, (Sorry, I dont have a macro lense)

Any thoughts on an ID? I'm thinking it might be Gonodactylaceus falcatus

Nick

 

[NaH2O]

Nick, its soooo cute! I can't believe how teeny it is. I checked out the link you posted. I thought the mantis in the grips of a blue-ring was especially helpful in identification lolol. Looks like it could be to me. Can you describe the set-up you made for it?

Curt, what do you feed something this small and still keep its smashers healthy? That cerith snail looks like it could take the mantis out.

 

[Curtswearing]

Any thoughts on an ID? I'm thinking it might be Gonodactylaceus falcatus

Nick

I don't think so. Let me hit my resources later today and come back with more info. However, welcome to the world of mantis keeping.

Curt, what do you feed something this small and still keep its smashers healthy? That cerith snail looks like it could take the mantis out.

Let me find out what it is and then I can suggest something.

 

[Curtswearing]

Nick,

I'm pretty sure it's in the Gonodactylellus Genus as opposed to Gonodactylaceus. However, I can't take it down to the species for sure. My ID is based on eye stalk shape and telson shape. At some point, maybe I'll come over and ID it by eye vs. picture.

My first guess is a baby Gonodactylellus viridis. (Degree of confidence 7 out of 10). By any chance, are there any TINY white speckles along the carapace?

My second guess is Gonodactylellus affinis. (Degree of confidence 6.9 out of 10).

As you can see, I'm pretty torn between two species. I've gone back and forth several times on telling which one is the most likely species. The size makes me think affinis but there doesn't appear to be a white stripe on the telson. Really, time will tell. If it stays that small, it's an affinis. If it keeps growing, it's a viridis.

Since we are talking about telson's, I have another Fact/Myth.

MYTH #5: I'm doing some maintenance in my tank and I'm safe because the mantis is facing the other direction.

Fact #5: Most mantis have uropods in their telson (tail). They can back into you and give you a pretty good stab if so desired. With smaller species, this feels like grabbing the tube of a fanworm. It doesn't feel good but it's not the end of the world either.

 

[NaH2O]

So, if it is the smaller variety (Gonodactylellus affinis), then what do you feed a mantis this small and still maintain its health?

 

[Curtswearing]

They will concentrate on amphipods and baby snails, if any, for food. However, like most mantis....it will have a "Napolean Complex" and will annoy the living daylights out of larger snails/crabs it cannot possibly conquer. They will get their exercise in that manner.

Supplemental feeding will be needed unless your tank is completely loaded with amphipods and baby snails. Don't feed it so often that it doesn't try to go after gastropods. At the same time, understand it's not going to win so it needs to be fed just like a fish. I would personally give it a thawed piece of Krill, shrimp, etc. periodically.

 

[Maxx]

Curt,
Dr Caldwell suspected it was a G.affinis...
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=8195912#post8195912

But I'd definately prefer a species that gets larger, just so you can see the damn thing more often. I fed it yesterday, squirted some mysis in the hole its hanging out in. Pretty sure it grabbed up some.

I have it in a 10 gallon tank with a couple of small pieces of rock, some smaller snails, a micro blue leg hermit, and a tiny chalk bass. The chalk bass isnt big enough to eat the mantis, but its too big to be a meal for the shrimp...

Nick

 

[Curtswearing]

Curt,
Dr Caldwell suspected it was a G.affinis...
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=8195912#post8195912

But I'd definately prefer a species that gets larger, just so you can see the damn thing more often. I fed it yesterday, squirted some mysis in the hole its hanging out in. Pretty sure it grabbed up some.

I'm certainly not going to go against Dr. Roy's ID. He's been doing this a loooong time and I'm definately a newbie (and will always remain so) compared to him.

You want to see it more. OK...it can be accomplished. My experience is that the smaller the species, the longer it takes for them to get accustomed to human interaction.

It's just like dogs Nick. Who is in charge? If you consistently squirt food into it's hole, what is it's motivation to come out of the hole (den) in the future? You wouldn't give Gracie a treat for sleeping on the couch. You are going to make her do something for that treat because you are in charge. On one of your days off, put some mysis in a corner of your tank and not into the den. Let it get hungry. Make it come to the corner for food when you are around and see that you are not going to harm it. With repetition over time, you will be seen as the, "Bringer of food".

I have it in a 10 gallon tank with a couple of small pieces of rock, some smaller snails, a micro blue leg hermit, and a tiny chalk bass. The chalk bass isnt big enough to eat the mantis, but its too big to be a meal for the shrimp...

Nick

With this particular species, I would go even smaller than a 10g to see it more.

 

[justinl]

MYTH #2: My hitchhiking mantis is going to break my tank or break my hand

Fact #2: Highly unlikely. While there are a few species that are capable of this, to my knowledge, they are rarely hitchhikers. If you have a very inexpensive tank with thin glass, it helps to put down a piece of plexiglass under the sandbed. (These issues will be described in section 4). The reality is that mantis have one of the fastest movements in nature so they have the acceleration thing down pat. Simple Newtonian physics explains why they aren't going to break your tank. Force = Mass x Acceleration. While they have the acceleration thing down pat, most hitchhikers don't have the mass to damage you very much nor your tank. Don't get me wrong....a strike definitely hurts. However, most hitchhikers are not going to cause long term damage provided you are being wise and wearing gloves.

hey curt, first of all I want to say GREAT thread, very informative. keep it up!

however, you mention that the strike of a mantis isnt all that crazy hard. I've done a bit of research online about these guys myself and this is the first time I've ever heard that. Now the most of the following is all based on hearsay and a bit of calculations... a mantis can apparently move their dactyls up to 10 000 G (or 100 000 m/s^2)...

Now anyone who's taken basic physics can tell you that that is HELLA fast acceleration. PLUS it's in water, which being much denser than air, can tell you how much faster it would move OUT of water. okay so let's move on to F = MA... well I have no idea how heavy a dactyl is so lets say .1grams. (.1grams) * (100000 m/s^2) = F = 10 000 N. For those of you who aren't familiar with N (newtons... a measure of force), suffice it to say that 10 000 of them is a lot. Now the small surface area it uses to hit with will also amplify the effect won't it? try it... slap fairly lightly something soft like styrofoam, then poke it with the same force using two fingers. which one penetrates the surface? see? now try it while moving those fingers at 10 000 G... kidding! I don't want to be liable for broken fingers.

whoo... that was intensive. anyways, conclusion: okay maybe its not the force of a .22 caliber bullet at the muzzle velocity, maybe it is, I don't know. But I DO think that 10 000 N is a heck of a lot of force and that gloves won't deal with very well... or the hands in the gloves for that matter. Tank galss? I personally think that they COULD by accident or if they were pissed enough. That said, there are very very few cases of broken glass compared to sliced fingers (although Id go with an acrylic tank to be safe). also note that whether its a smasher or a spearer, either could go "thumbsplitter" on you effortlessly. oh and also note that smashers actually elbow the hard stuff. they have a third spike like segment of the appendage that they can extend to slice and dice with.

anywho, thats my 2 cents... or 50 if you consider how in depth i just went. what are your thoughts on this curt?

 

[sandlot13]

haha, way too in depth man........

heres how i see it.... if my mantis is coming after my hand, im running away screaming. If my mantis is bashing at the sides or bottom of the tank, im nervous for a possible break. These guys can hit hard, and it all it takes is a slight inconsistency in the glass to bring major problems about.

Either way, im impressed with your analasys!

 

[justinl]

hahaha thanks sandlot! I figured, "hey, it's my first post, might as well go all out." Just be happy I didn'd go into the intensive physics of cavitation bubbles... that stuff is messed. At any rate, I don't think anymore of my posts will be quite that... difficult.