Sustainable aquarium keeping?

[spiffluk]

Being a pretty conscientious environmentalist & former marine enthusiast (I had given the hobby up for years because of concern over the overexploitation of reefs) I recently started thinking about setting up an aquarium again, but to assuage my sense of environmental guilt, I was going to post a want ad on this forum for used aquarium equipment (e.g. used Maxi-jet powerhead, old-fashioned air pump, tubing) & stock a smallish aquarium with tank-raised or 'rescued' animals (e.g. bubble-tip anemones & spinecheek clowns...animals that don't require a lot of room) but then I wondered if I'm just kidding myself. Even though I was also going to do other greenish things like using Puget Sound seawater, lighting the tank with a compact fluorescent light only during the dark months & using natural sunlight the rest of the time, even put up extra solar panels to offset the electricity use, I still wonder whether the best thing to do, if I'm to stay true to my green philosophy, is to forgo the whole thing. Thoughts?

 

[freakin]

Avoiding the hobby entirely is probably the greenest way to go.

That being said, there is a good amount of aquacultured livestock available. Many things in an aquarium can be propagated in captivity. These were however, all harvested to begin with.

There was a tank on reefcentral from a guy who used solar tubes to light his aquarium and I think his results were acceptable.

LEDs may be more efficient than CF.

Buying used equipment is still supporting the companies who produced it in the first place, and it was replaced by the previous owner with something newer with fresh packaging. If you have the equipment shipped to you there is packaging, shipping, etc. If you pick it up yourself you have spent gas to get the equipment.

Basically you will have to compromise at some point, IMO. I would guess you can be 80%+ greener than the average reefkeeper but there is no way to have a 100% green aquarium as a complete picture.

I think focusing on *maintaining* an aquarium using green methods is largely achievable and admirable. I am concerned that you will compromise on something your tank needs because it is not environmentally friendly.

Test kits, supplements, waste water, etc are the big maintenance concerns.

 

[lvsuckerfish]

I like the solar tubes I wish WA had more sun so I would be able to use them. green in this hobby I agree with freakin it is almost impossible being that things will be needed that will cost chemicals for testing the tank ect. you maybe able to get away with a Biotope tank with sunlight or real low light demanding live stock. but thats a small system not sure how much one would enjoy sucks a small system.

 

[Inconservatory]

While I am more of an ideologue in this subject, I'd be interested to see what you can pull together. Indeed, we need more people like you to invent new ways to save our hobby energy and save the reefs some stress. I look forward to seeing more DIY and tank build threads.

 

[khaosinc]

I like the solar tubes I wish WA had more sun so I would be able to use them. green in this hobby I agree with freakin it is almost impossible being that things will be needed that will cost chemicals for testing the tank ect. you maybe able to get away with a Biotope tank with sunlight or real low light demanding live stock. but thats a small system not sure how much one would enjoy sucks a small system.

I plan on adding them at some point in the future. 9 months out of the year I think they would be quite useful actually. My mother has some on her house (for natural lighting, not aquariums) and even on moderetly cloudy days the light coming in is still brighter than the rest of the light in the house. There are cloudy days on the reef as well.

You could also build/rebuild a tank (especially acrylic) that would normally be thrown out, use all of the wastewater from ro/di in other uses around the house. Used/rebuilt pumps that might otherwise be thrown out as well as most other aquarium supplies. Fish could only be gathered by owners giving them up so as not to promote wild caught species as well as most other inhabitents of the tank.

All depends on how far one wants to go. It could make for an interesting build?

 

[spiffluk]

Thanks for your input. I guess the only 100% green thing for us all to do is kill ourselves w/o leaving children, but few of us would opt for that. Next best thing is just to do things 'greener', e.g. reduce, reuse, recycle, compost. One thing I won't do is compromise the care of my animals (I'm also an animal rights supporter).

 

[freakin]

Thanks for your input. I guess the only 100% green thing for us all to do is kill ourselves w/o leaving children, but few of us would opt for that.

Actually I think never being born would be preferred

I feel that most of the effort to being "green" is devoted to making sure everyone else knows how green you are. I remember hearing or reading about the efficiency of forests and how after a certain point they are no longer beneficial to greenhouse gasses. They absorb the CO2 for a long time then release it all as they die and decompose. It is more beneficial for the environment to grow and harvest forests on a regular cycle than to leave them be undisturbed. The public would have a hard time understanding the merit of cutting down old growth forests, however :badgrin:

We need more animal rights supporters. It makes me sick how little people value the life of other creatures sometimes. My dog was hit by a car on Friday night and the mother****er who hit her didn't even stop to see if she was ok. He just took off.

 

[Chichas01]

Thanks for your input. I guess the only 100% green thing for us all to do is kill ourselves w/o leaving children, but few of us would opt for that. Next best thing is just to do things 'greener', e.g. reduce, reuse, recycle, compost. One thing I won't do is compromise the care of my animals (I'm also an animal rights supporter).

Sounds like good choice! It will leave more room for me and my kids while we enjoy our bacon.

 

[mfinn]

Sounds like good choice! It will leave more room for me and my kids while we enjoy our bacon.

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

 

[spiffluk]

Luckily I have a sense of humor too. And Darwinism does nothing to diminish human dignity; it only deflates our hubris.

 

[Chichas01]

modern environmentalism is the pinnacle of hubris. It gives us great 'enlightened' individuals like John Holdren who once wrote:
• Women could be forced to abort their pregnancies, whether they wanted to or not;
• The population at large could be sterilized by infertility drugs intentionally put into the nation's drinking water or in food;
• Single mothers and teen mothers should have their babies seized from them against their will and given away to other couples to raise;
• People who "contribute to social deterioration" (i.e. undesirables) "can be required by law to exercise reproductive responsibility" -- in other words, be compelled to have abortions or be sterilized.
• A transnational "Planetary Regime" should assume control of the global economy and also dictate the most intimate details of Americans' lives -- using an armed international police force.

Good luck with your tank though. I’m all for energy efficiency and responsible stewardship of our critters, just for different reasons than yours. Post some pics in the build thread when you get a chance. I like the idea of solar panels to offset the energy used but that is some $$$$ from the estimates I've received when I looked into it. Also are you sure you can survive the guilt of contributing to environmental destruction that occurs in the process of manufacturing the solar panels?

 

[Skimmy]

modern environmentalism is the pinnacle of hubris. It gives us great 'enlightened' individuals like John Holdren who once wrote:
• Women could be forced to abort their pregnancies, whether they wanted to or not;
• The population at large could be sterilized by infertility drugs intentionally put into the nation's drinking water or in food;
• Single mothers and teen mothers should have their babies seized from them against their will and given away to other couples to raise;
• People who "contribute to social deterioration" (i.e. undesirables) "can be required by law to exercise reproductive responsibility" -- in other words, be compelled to have abortions or be sterilized.
• A transnational "Planetary Regime" should assume control of the global economy and also dictate the most intimate details of Americans' lives -- using an armed international police force.

Good luck with your tank though. I’m all for energy efficiency and responsible stewardship of our critters, just for different reasons than yours. Post some pics in the build thread when you get a chance. I like the idea of solar panels to offset the energy used but that is some $$$$ from the estimates I've received when I looked into it. Also are you sure you can survive the guilt of contributing to environmental destruction that occurs in the process of manufacturing the solar panels?

what...didnt you get the last memo from the bilderberger meeting?? 80% of us will be dead anyway....
so any criticism of environmentalism is moot...lol
gee, i hope the amero looks cool...and it'll be so easy now to vacation in mexico!! what a wonderful world we live in today....:doubt: rofl...


i think it's an excellent idea for a tank, and one that can be done fairly responsibly without too much environmental/finnancial impact.

for instance, my 20g reeftank typically consumes less than a 100 watt lightbulb(except when the 100w heater kicks on, then it's two lightbulbs but at least the heat from the other pumps and the heat from the room my tank is in helps keep the heating to a minimum) , but has protein skimming, media filtration, 1200gph flow from a tunze 6045 wide flow powerhead, and enough light for any softies or lps, or easy sps (32 watts of LED).
for maximum energy saving effect i would personally design the system and then purchase only the items that fit your design profile as opposed to just using whatever used crap you get for cheap or free.

and as far as the fish/corals themselves?? you could easily stock only captive bread fish, and purchase growout fragments of corals from other reefers, and responsibly maricultured corals. that to me would be even more desirable as an environmental model than having a tank full of rescued wild fish/corals. and you would be able to choose the inhabitants more wisely this way, as opposed to such a pel mel combination of rescue creatures. ...not that a rescue tank it's self doesnt have alot of merrit as well...it definately does.

 

[spiffluk]

I'd like to see where you got those John Holdren quotes from, and if they're real, whether they were taken out of context. I cannot believe that he would say those things.

I already have 12 solar panels that cost ~12K several years ago. I'm thinking of adding 6 more. I consider them an investment in a cleaner future.

 

[spiffluk]

what...didnt you get the last memo from the bilderberger meeting?? 80% of us will be dead anyway....
so any criticism of environmentalism is moot...lol
gee, i hope the amero looks cool...and it'll be so easy now to vacation in mexico!! what a wonderful world we live in today....:doubt: rofl...


i think it's an excellent idea for a tank, and one that can be done fairly responsibly without too much environmental/finnancial impact.

for instance, my 20g reeftank typically consumes less than a 100 watt lightbulb(except when the 100w heater kicks on, then it's two lightbulbs but at least the heat from the other pumps and the heat from the room my tank is in helps keep the heating to a minimum) , but has protein skimming, media filtration, 1200gph flow from a tunze 6045 wide flow powerhead, and enough light for any softies or lps, or easy sps (32 watts of LED).
for maximum energy saving effect i would personally design the system and then purchase only the items that fit your design profile as opposed to just using whatever used crap you get for cheap or free.

and as far as the fish/corals themselves?? you could easily stock only captive bread fish, and purchase growout fragments of corals from other reefers, and responsibly maricultured corals. that to me would be even more desirable as an environmental model than having a tank full of rescued wild fish/corals. and you would be able to choose the inhabitants more wisely this way, as opposed to such a pel mel combination of rescue creatures. ...not that a rescue tank it's self doesnt have alot of merrit as well...it definately does.

I'm going 'low tech' with a good ol' fashioned undergravel filter with airstones and airlifts, which works well for most things.

 

[spiffluk]

Actually I think never being born would be preferred

I feel that most of the effort to being "green" is devoted to making sure everyone else knows how green you are. I remember hearing or reading about the efficiency of forests and how after a certain point they are no longer beneficial to greenhouse gasses. They absorb the CO2 for a long time then release it all as they die and decompose. It is more beneficial for the environment to grow and harvest forests on a regular cycle than to leave them be undisturbed. The public would have a hard time understanding the merit of cutting down old growth forests, however :badgrin:

We need more animal rights supporters. It makes me sick how little people value the life of other creatures sometimes. My dog was hit by a car on Friday night and the mother****er who hit her didn't even stop to see if she was ok. He just took off.

The science of carbon sequestration is complex and incompletely understood, but from what I've read, the best way to use forests to sequester carbon is to not cut old growth at all.

Sorry about your dog. My dog was hit by a car a long time ago (my fault - I was walking him offleash) but fortunately he just ended up with a few cuts and bruises, and the driver was nice about it (I paid to repair his fender).

 

[Chichas01]

I'd like to see where you got those John Holdren quotes from, and if they're real, whether they were taken out of context. I cannot believe that he would say those things.

I already have 12 solar panels that cost ~12K several years ago. I'm thinking of adding 6 more. I consider them an investment in a cleaner future.

here ya go:
http://97.74.65.51/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=34198

Page numbers and copies of the text from the book:
http://zombietime.com/john_holdren/

What size and make are your panels? Have you been able to calculate out the ROI? There was another guy on the boards here who did some pretty good work on cost/benefits for them.

 

[spiffluk]

here ya go:
http://97.74.65.51/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=34198

Page numbers and copies of the text from the book:
http://zombietime.com/john_holdren/

What size and make are your panels? Have you been able to calculate out the ROI? There was another guy on the boards here who did some pretty good work on cost/benefits for them.

They are Sharp ND-176U (176) watt photovoltaic modules, and the City pays me 15 cents per kW. Don't know what the ROI is...I'm guessing it will take several decades to break even, but I just did it because I think it's the right thing to do.

 

[burning2nd]

Avoiding the hobby entirely is probably the greenest way to go.

Ive beat my self up so meny times... on one hand we have ,this is true... but on the other hand i cant help think that its obvious that were destroying the planet and ocean, and someway we could be sustaining life in some fourm, preventing once less extinction from the most impotent place on the planet.


Ive settled my self by sustaining life... no death.. all growth and thriving environment, but is so small compared to the big issue
i do nevi the people who chase the hole solar pannel, wind tower thing.... but really i know its to late, and were all but the ocean gonna suffer the same fate

 

[Chichas01]

They are Sharp ND-176U (176) watt photovoltaic modules, and the City pays me 15 cents per kW. Don't know what the ROI is...I'm guessing it will take several decades to break even, but I just did it because I think it's the right thing to do.

Several decades? ouch! Do the panels even last that long before needing replacement? Do you know what the avg kw per day or month your selling back to the city is? I'm going to have to go back and see if I can read up on that thread another member did on his panels to see what he came up with.
Too bad we don't get enought sun here to use those cool solar tubes. That would be pretty awsome.

 

[spiffluk]

Solar panels are pretty durable. I generate somewhere between 2000-3000 kW-hours per year, for which the City pays me $300-400 (it would've been more if I had WA-made panels, which don't exist yet as far as I know). There's also some sort of federal tax credit I can get now for installing more panels.

Not sure what 'solar tubes' mentioned are, but I have several nifty 'Solatubes' which are sort of like skylights to let in more daylight through the roof.