T5 Ballast Question

[reefaddict]

t-5

scooterman,
what was it that made you think i didn't read the whole thread? speaking of reading maybe you should read that article before you make assumptions that i am misreading it.

 

[Scooterman]

I'm not going to pay $25 just to read one thing. I think your taking what I said the wrong way, from what your posting I believe something is being left out, if you can clip the article here I'll read it for myself. I was refering to the link I posted with a ballast that would do what dnjan were talking about & not have to worry about overdriving a bulb or having the wrong ballast.

 

[reefaddict]

t-5

i cant clip it, but i can copy it and fax it if you have a fax available.

 

[Scooterman]

I just got more information, you can wire 4 48" 54w T5's on a 660 ballast or 3 60" 80w lamps, it will work fine, & Icecap also has wiring diagrams on how to overdrive them. When you overdrive you can't use as many lamps, you would need to get extra ballast for more bulbs but you do get lots more output, estimated a 70%, bulb life is drastically reduced, these bulbs are expensive but it can be done. Now the only information I can't imagine is the statement that you can out perform a MH, I think short term maybe but overall cost of bulbs replacement, extra Heat, is it really a desired thing to do? I'm not kidding these bulbs at that length is expensive to ship, I know I have 60"VHO's at over $36 something a bulb at that life span at such a high rate being overdriven, I can't imaging how this can be better.

 

[dnjan]

the site you are looking for is www.icecapinc.com or you can call and talk to Andy their phone is 609-588-5338 ext 25

I had tried that website already. When I go to the Products page, scroll down to the Model 3000 ballast, and click on Spec Sheet, I get a popup with links to the spec sheets for all their ballasts. But the 3000 link is not active (the rest are).

What time zone is the 609 area code?

Thanks

 

[Scooterman]

Don, on the IC660 like I said above, you can run three T5 60" 80w bulbs. I can run on my IC660 4 VHO 48" or 3 60" VHO's, turn out the same falls true to the T5, you can look on the schematics to see how they are wired, probably the same way for both types but I'd check to make sure.

 

[moonpod]

I hate to rain on peoples parades but a 54watt bulb is a 54watt bulb no matter what the claim is! the physical propeties of the bulbs wont allow it to run higher. And anybody who disputes it should talk to an engineer at say oshram, General Electric, or better yet Hamilton lighting. I get a laugh everytime someone makes these claims about flourescence bulbs.

Explain this to me please. I'd like to understand the reasons why and then try to make it correlated with what I've seen first hand. I know that IC claims that if you run a 54w T5HO on the IC660, you drive it at 80-85w. I know that even with the plain 'ol eyeball meter, a 54w T5HO is brighter on the IC 660 than on say a universal triad T5HO ballast. I played around A LOT with T5s when SLS first introduced their setups. Maybe I was imagining things though.

FWIW, a T5HO will last at least a year on the IC660, if not longer. I did it, ran a lux meter under them and after the initial fade off (10% or so) didn't really see a fade past that point. I stopped b/c I switched to MH to increase my tank penetration.

Also FWIW, in a shallower setup (T5 like any other fluorscent doesn't penetrate all that great) you CAN get very good results in terms of growth. It's just that IME, past the 14-16" mark things get sketchy fast. But above that, I could keep croceas quite happy. I think the key is the nice reflectors that SLS and IC make. Those things really do work very well.

 

[Scooterman]

You are right, fluorescent lamps can last years before going out. Apogee or LiCor meter will do a much better job than a Lux meter at measuring PAR; you can’t tell by the naked eye how well a bulb is doing. I think what gobie was referring to is by design these bulbs have a pre-determined life at a defined wattage. Over driving a lamp is pushing it beyond design, excessive amperage through the bulb causes excessive heat, and it is amazing that they last so long when over-driven like that; it is like cranking up the voltage on a transformer to the point of an open circuit. Another thing, when you over-drive, your re-wiring the ballast using the multiple outputs in series to in effect use all of the transformer power, you then loose the ability to add more lamps, so now you would need to buy two ballast to get the same amount of bulbs, when all you really need to do is buy a MH

 

[moonpod]

Actually, Scoot, you "can't" normal drive a T5HO with an IC660. It simply pushes that much wattage through the lamp. You aren't doing anything wacky with the wiring like you would if you overdrive the lamps with say a workhorse ballast. You can't overdrive T5HOs with "T5HO" ballasts either. They won't light. I mean, I personally currently use MH, and it certainly penetrates better than T5, but in certain setups T5HO works very well, is low heat and the bulbs can "potentially" last very, very long (even without overdriving they work well). I've seen growouts that are shallow do VERY well with T5HO lighting. And if you want to see a T5 tank that'll blow your mind find Bernard Mohr's tank. Finally, obviously an actual PAR meter is more accurate than a lux meter, but you use what is available. IC claims that under their "torture" testing overdriven T5s on the IC 660 will last much longer than a year, not color shift and maintain 90% of their initial output. So who knows.

 

[Scooterman]

I was directly talking about the IC660, not the workhorse, I don't know where you pulled that one from me. The T5 48" 54w on the "IC660 will last a long time, but like in all fluorescent lamps, it has been proven the PAR drops off drastically at 6 months, ask Boomer he can clarify that for you. Now with that said, I agree, I've compared VHO, PC & H.O. T5 & with good reflectors I love the T5's, I don't doubt you get really great grow out.

edit for corrections.

 

[reefaddict]

t-5

this is beating a dead horse but i am confused. i thought running a bulb at a higher wattage than it is rated at is "overdriving". the ic660 runs a 48"t-5 at 80watts not 54(without any rewiring). how is that not overdriving? or can somebody please explain what overdriving means. when i understand this one concept i am going to stay away from this thread. i promise!!

 

[Scooterman]

I haven't seen where someone actually tested the IC660 pushing 80w in a 54w T5, I thought is was just slightly over that & he achieved the 80w by rewiring it. I never did get that article? In a sense it is overdriving the bulb but rewiring the ballast was the original way of overdriving it, I don't have the data of how much the normally wired IC660 pushed the T5, can someone post data of the testing on this, wattage?

 

[dwall174]

I have not been able to find an 80-watt HO-T5 ballast that runs on 110-120 volts.

Happy Reefing lists the Work Horse 7 as being able to run two 58" 80-watt T-5's

 

[Scooterman]

The last time spoke with Andy was over a year ago regarding the T5 & the IC660, it was still in the processing stage, since then I'm seeing other statement about them so I've decided to question Andy once again and get the latest testing information and just how much does the 660 drive a 48" 54w T5, how it is wired & how many lamps can it handle this way and information on overdriving the lamps, I also asked specific questions about the 60" 80W T5, how it is wired, how much over in wattage does it push, & can it be overdriven, wired & how many lamps it can do this. Also the affecting lifespan, I think the shifting it doesn't affect it much for quite some time but more so I'm interesting in PAR drop-off. He will send me the information & I'll post it. With some of older equipment, the characteristics of overdriving was different. The abilities of driving these lamps & the information we have here in the states if relatively new as compared to overseas aquarium T5's. I've read conflicting information about the workhorse some saying it will overdrive the T5, depending how it is wired, some say no. Since we're leaning towards the IC660, I'll stick to that for now.

 

[moonpod]

I was directly talking about the IC660, not the workhorse, I don't know where you pulled that one from me. [/size][/font]

I guess it's a semantics issue b/c to me, if you are pushing 80-85w through a 54w bulb, that's overdriving. The workhorse ballast IS a separate issue I agree.

There is no "T5HO" ballast that will run 2 80w bulbs, but the workhorse 7 a "jack of all trades ballast" will do it.

FWIW this is a link to the most outrageous T5 lit aquarium I've ever seen
http://www.korallenriff.de/Mohr/

 

[Scooterman]

http://www.servicelighting.com/catalog_product.cfm?prod=SL49670&link_p=Sylvania-ballast-49670

This will run two but at 277volts.
I still want to know how they are wireing them, I will find out Monday. I have a question, how many lamps are being used on the IC660 at 80W?

 

[moonpod]

2, 3 or 4. I don't think you can run only one. I'd have to check the wire diagrams. The way an IC ballast works the lamps get the same amount of wattage regardless to my understanding. If leads aren't wired, they are dead.

 

[dnjan]

Happy Reefing lists the Work Horse 7 as being able to run two 58" 80-watt T-5's

Thanks! Looks like that will do exactly what I want!

 

[dwall174]

Thanks! Looks like that will do exactly what I want!

I'm still trying to figure all the options out for a new in-wall tank & I only have 68" to work with so that’s why I was looking at the 5' tanks & lighting for them.

There is no "T5HO" ballast that will run 2 80w bulbs, but the workhorse 7 a "jack of all trades ballast" will do it.

So how does the WH-7 run the 80-watt lamps overdrive or underdrive? Being Happy Reefing stated the WH-7 would drive two 58.5” 80-watt lamps I just assumed it was matched?

 

[Scooterman]

I have a 5' tank, VHO & MH but If I started new, I'd go, 2 400W XM, & a 250w in the middle, wouldn't need any fluorescents.